Tag: Bishop Interviews

Pedophiles in Priesthood Power–Amy’s Story

TearsWhat you are about to read…I consider a sacred story.  This woman is a cherished friend.

As I poured over her story, I was fascinated.  Then I cried.  Then anger.  Finally, gratitude that my friend is coming to terms with a horrid violation at the hands of her childhood bishop.  Her healing is now to the point that she can openly share her story.  Which is, in-and-of-itself, part of the healing process.

Thank you Amy…I love you.

Sexual abuse by a pedophile with priesthood power is a real risk in the current state of LDS youth interviews.  This year alone, there have been 3 high profile court cases of bishops being prosecuted.  Two in the U.S. and one in the U.K.

Amy Hall’s Story–In Her Own Unedited Words

Trigger Warning * Sexual assault involving a bishop*

**If you are a survivor of molest, be very cautious about being triggered with reading my story!!!**

* Sam Young, THANK YOU for Holding THIS TORCH. I cannot begin to tell you how much your work in shedding light on these interviews means to me!!!

This post contains the reality of the sexual molestation I endured as young Mormon girl behind closed doors in my bishop’s office. I can’t even stand to capitalize the word “bishop” and even sitting at the keyboard typing this, it takes a tremendous amount of effort not to dissociate and revert to the trembling little girl I was when my innocence was stolen from me.

There are days and even weeks at a time that I feel like a molest victim. The feeling of being a “victim” floods in when I am consciously remembering the moment by moment details that robbed me of my innocence and ability to develop with a “normal” sense of the sexuality we should all be entitled to.

As a survivor of molest, I became extremely adept at compartmentalizing my feelings, emotions, and even my memories.  Compartmentalizing all of these things enabled me to “Look Like” a mature adult woman “on the outside”.

I learned to “pretend” that I wasn’t a victim. I even taught myself to “pretend” I wasn’t even a “survivor”.  Much of my adult life, I literally “pretended” that I had NEVER been sexually molested by my bishop.  More about how that came about later.

My parents were both converts before I was born and married in the Los Angeles temple in 1957. I was born the 2nd of 3 children in 1961. By the time I was 3 years old, my father was in the bishopric as the second counselor. There was never a time during my childhood and even into my early 20s that my father was not in the bishopric as either the first or second counselor. Our ward was split and my Father went from being the second counselor in the old ward to the first counselor in the new ward. The bishop that called him to be his first counselor would be the bishop that molested me.

The bishop was THE jolliest, kindest, lovable man you can possibly imagine.  Everyone “loved” him.  And he made me feel very special.  He ALWAYS had a pocket full of candies. There was always a big glass bowl of candies on his desk. He would greet everyone with the warmest of hellos.  And I loved crossing paths with him in the foyer or the cultural hall BECAUSE as he approached, you could see his hand dip into his suit coat pocket.  This meant he was going to give you a piece of candy.  But I was very special to him and he made me feel like I was more special than other children because when he took candy out of his pocket for me, his hand would be wrapped around the candy tightly and there were always two candies for me.

He would wrap his arm lovingly around me and take my little hand into his big warm hand and secretly press two candies into my hand, wrap my fingers around the candies and hold it an extra-long time and bend down and whisper in my ear that I was so sweet and so pretty that I got two candies when everyone else only gets one candy. I would seek him out because a big hug always meant I would get two candies secretly, warmly, and lovingly pressed into my hand. “Now, don’t tell anyone that you got two candies because you are so sweet.  Everyone else only gets one!”  Plus I was special because my dad was his first counselor.

His office door was often open.  If I peeped my head in the door, he would wave me in and say sweet little admiring things to me about how special and pretty I was and give me some candy.  He was known for these special candies.  He had a whole story about them.  He called them “Quilting Pills”… Now-a-days, you can buy them in rolls called “Mentos”… but back then, they were individually wrapped in white, blue and silver paper and came from the bulk candy bins at Hickory Farms.

As an adult, I know that he was “grooming” me… grooming me to feel a little more special than my peers… and also grooming me to keep secrets.

I don’t have a memory of being molested before the molest that played out in his office behind closed doors.  But I do remember masturbating when I was pretty young.  I have since asked a number of my close female friends (over the years) if they remember masturbating as a child… mind you, these were women AFTER I left the church.  I left the church in my early 20s.  And it was a lot easier to talk about things like this with never-mormons.

My mother had a small book in our bookshelf that had black and white pictures of child birthing.  I remember being sexually excited by looking at the pictures in that book. Looking at the pictures in that book used to make my vagina tingly and warm.  I would take the book, look at the pictures for a bit and then rub the book between my legs until I had orgasms.  I had no clue about what “masturbation” was… But somehow, I had discovered these very exciting sensations.  I was around five years old when my Mother “caught” me doing this. She shamed me for it and told me to STOP DOING THAT!… Her tone of voice made me feel very shameful.  But it felt so good that I just learned to do this ONLY when NO one could catch me doing so.  It was a very regular thing.

After reading Max D. Crapo’s article: “Mormonism: Extending Power Through Sexual Control”, I have come to understand, like Max, my mother also unwittingly began grooming me for sexual control by Mormon leadership… Specifically my bishop and later on a stake president. (Note… after the abuse I suffered at from these men, I find myself unable to capitalize those titles.!)

I do not know exactly the age I was when I first had “THE INTERVIEW” in the bishop’s office. But I had been well groomed to love and trust him –both from the primary lessons on how our bishop loved us like our Heavenly Father… and from how sweet and loving he had been to me while grooming me to keep secrets.

I had been in his office MANY times… my dad was always staying late for his first counselor bishopric duties… and I felt super comfortable in that office.  And EVERYTIME I went into his office, I could count on walking out of there with a handful of “Quilting Pills”… Mentos… The bishop told this story about how the sisters used to always have a big bowl of these mints when they sat around quilting together.

The Interview. My turn to get to go into his office with the door shut. So trusting… so feeling loved and cared about by him… one of his favorite children… and I was his first counselor’s daughter.  That made me even more special. I think about all of this now and my heart beat races, my hands get cold and clammy and I feel sick and shaky.

I sat in the big wooden armed chair with soft padding.  He pulled his chair up so close to mine and sat knee to knee to me.  He reached out and could touch my little bony knees with his warm hands.  At first the caress of his warm hands on my knees did not feel creepy, strange, or weird.  He was like a loving grandfather to me.  I revered him like my Heavenly Father.

I vividly remember the card he had with “the questions” on it… it was yellow card stock. Funny how some things get stamped into your memory.  I have since looked up the questions on line… Did I have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?… Did I pay my tithing on my allowance… did I keep the word of wisdom… AND then the questions about touching myself.  I didn’t know this was coming. I just wasn’t prepared for him to ask about this. I had already been shamed about it by my mother… so, I just touched myself when no one could catch me… BUT this was like sitting in front of MY Heavenly Father… and I needed to be true and honest with Him…

I loved the church.  I loved the Gospel… I had been programmed to Love everything about the church… So, answering truthfully no matter how hard my heart was pounding was what I did.  Yes, I have touched myself between my legs.  My vision got foggy.  My heart was pounding. The walls felt like they were closing in on me… even typing this right now, my body starts to tremble with this feeling of dread and fear and I start to dissociate.

He was sitting knee to knee.  His chair so close.  He reached out and touched my knees.  It felt like he was trying to comfort me and put me at ease.  He spoke in a hypnotic tone… calming… and he went into a whole thing about my Heavenly Father and our Savior… and about how loving and understanding they are about this sin that I was committing… He told me that He and my Heavenly Father understood that I would not be able to master this sin right away… They understood that this could take a very, very long time to learn how to stop doing this.  He told me that this was okay because our Heavenly Father was the kind of loving father that understands and will forgive me if I can’t stop this right away.  I understand now that he was programming me to continue this loop of self-pleasure and masturbation intermingled with intense guilt but like a loop that I just couldn’t stop.  I understand now that this man was a sick and twisted pedophile… that he groomed me to feel so special and loved by him… and then he molested me… but he twisted that into the sickest form of mental abuse as well as the physical molest.

The physical molest came in the form of a priesthood blessing.  But first he asked me to show him how I touched myself.  Did I touch myself between my legs with my panties on from the outside of my panties or did I touch myself underneath my panties?  He needed to know so he could understand in order for himself and my Heavenly Father to help me to be able to stop this over time.  He emphasized a number of times how difficult this would be and how they understood this. They…. He and my Heavenly Father… Over and over… how difficult this would be stop… how understanding they would be over the time it would take for me to gain mastery over this… on and on…

Out came the priesthood blessing oil.  To this day, the smell of rancid olive oil makes me sick to my stomach… and I can get triggered from seeing one of those small aluminum vials of that vile oil!!!

If I could just stand up and slip my panties off then he could give me a blessing with the priesthood oil since I touched myself under my panties sometimes.  I had seen these priesthood oil blessings many times before.  I was deep under his control.  I was compliant and submissive to his voice and commands.  My head felt foggy.  My heart was pounding in my chest. It was as if my Heavenly Father was right there with him and they needed to rub the oil between my legs while he prayed so that the blessing could go right to the spot where it could be more helpful as a blessing.  During the blessing and while he rubbed the oil around and around, he continued the whole speak about “them” being so understanding about how long it would take me to overcome this sin because they understood that it can feel good.

The thing that I have come to understand as an adult is that a pedophile does not always “hurt” the child while touching them.  When I separate from the traumatized little girl part of me, I know that what he did with this touch felt sexually pleasurable… and he used this to further draw me in.

Next came a horrible heaping of mental and emotional torture and abuse.

I don’t know if you can fathom (if you have not been sexually molested) HOW UTTERLY difficult this is to disclose… but I am determined to speak out… to be brave enough to tell these details so that others can also understand how this messes with your head… how the guilt and shame comes flooding in because this kind of abuse was done to me and it literally felt sexually pleasurable… I now understand how this messes with your head to create a loop of guilt that loops over and over of blaming yourself.  He was blaming me for the fact that I felt pleasure… and yet he was using this whole sick and twisted stuff all wrapped up in the years and years I had been brainwashed in Primary and Sunday School about my Loving Heavenly Father being so loving and understanding to manifest my silence hoping I would NEVER speak out and tell anyone that he had sexually assaulted me. And as an innocent child, I had ABSOLUTELY no understanding that I was being sexually molested.

I have come to understand that victims of pedophilia do not speak out because they are made to think it is their doing… and that they are horrible for causing this to happen.  I can now see how this man used the sensations of pleasure that my child body was experiencing to shut me up… to make it my fault… to heap guilt on me for this yet crave the pleasure of it.

These “interviews” occurred more than once.  For years, I did not talk about this because I went back to him for more of these blessing… because the sexual sensations felt good. There was this sick loop of the pleasure being more of a secondary gain than the guilt.  Until I understood how messed up this really is, I was utterly embarrassed… and I blamed myself.  It took going to a psychologist and having weekly counseling sessions for over a year ALMOST every week to separate out the guilt ridden little girl and the adult woman that I am …AND begin to integrate these PARTS of me into a whole person so that I can share this with you now. Those of you who saw me first post about some of this over a year ago will remember how awkward and angry I was trying to share my story in hopes of healing.. and also just lashing out in rage … in hopes of getting the church to stop these interviews… to just vent… and try to process all of this.

I think this is an important piece to understanding how a pedophile works on an innocent child.  He showered me with loving attention.  He made me feel special.  And he also pleasured me.  I now can explain this… say it… type it –The mature adult in me WHO HAS HAD to go back and work with this wounded guilt ridden little girl and help her understand that she did the best she could.  THAT SHE WAS a VICTIM of this sick perverted pedophile!!!!  And that it was not and is NOT her fault….

The Mental and emotional torture and abuse:

You know the teaching in Mormonism about the “Sins of the fathers coming down on the heads of the children…”???  The bishop twisted this around and caused me to understand that the sins of the children can come down on the head of the father.  He twisted this all around caused the little girl in me to worry that if I told anyone about this horrific sin that was akin to murder, that my father’s life could come to an end… hence it was extremely important that this sin that I was struggling with so horrifically be between me and my Heavenly Father only… and of course the bishop –who was intervening with me for the forgiveness that our Savior would grant once I could stop this.

The sins of the sons and the daughters will come down on the heads of the fathers… This is so sick and twisted… and he manipulated all of this to the point that I started having a reoccurring nightmare that my father’s head was chopped off with a big sword by a missionary in a white shirt and name tag…

The dream was vivid.  The missionary had a huge sword… like the one from the Book of Mormon… my dad was made to kneel execution style on the floor of my bedroom and the missionary raised the sword and chopped of his head.  I remember the first time I had the nightmare. I was away from home at camp… I woke up screaming in the middle of the night.  It wasn’t a church camp.  I woke up screaming in the middle of the night and my camp counselor let me call my dad at work the next day to just hear his voice.

I was so fearful that I would cause this to happen to my dad because I enjoyed this self-pleasure sin… that I did not tell anyone about this dream when I was a child… or teenager –except the bishop.  After I started having the dream, I could not sleep in my own bedroom and made excuses to my parents as to why I started sleeping on the couch in the living room…. Telling them that for some UNKNOWN reason, I had nightmare in my bedroom.  I couldn’t even dress in my bedroom for several years.

And this is how twisted the little girl in me had become and how enmeshed I had become with this sick pedophile bishop: I went to him and told the bishop about the reoccurring dream and he gave me a blessing… this time on the top of my head with that horrid rancid priesthood blessing oil.  By then, I was about 14 years old.  The priesthood oil blessing stopped around the time I started my periods… AND I HAD NO IDEA THAT I HAD BEEN BEING MOLESTED … it was just all so twisted… Being raised in this guilt for sexuality culture… CULT… I just thought this was all my fault… and that the bishop was helping me.

There is an educated, intelligent adult part of me that I have been able to develop… I was able to do so by PRETENDING throughout most of my adult life that I was not a victim OR survivor of childhood molest by a sick pedophile… I even went to a group therapy sponsored by a government county agency that was called AMAC… Adults Molested as Children… WHERE I identified as someone who MIGHT have been molested as a child… but couldn’t remember… I identified in the group telling the therapist and the group members that I “felt” like I “Might” have been molested…. And that is how I survived through my early adult years.

The women in the AMAC group were a MESS… and I went to the group.. I listened… I talked about my sexual stuff… how I thought the molest I might not fully remember might be affecting me because I felt like I belonged in the group….

BUT, I would not talk about it in detail… and I compartmentalized it all… telling myself that if I got the help I could get from the group without becoming a total mess –like I was observing the women in the group to be, THEN I could function as an adult… and I did … for MANY years… until I was finally in a safe relationship… after two failed marriages… and after being a single mom for another 10 years… appearing very put together… identifying as a high functioning adult… a dentist’s wife… an elementary school teacher… a good mother who has armed her daughter with the ability to not be molested… ALL THE while KEEPING MY DEEP DARK SECRET … THE DARK SECRET THAT THE LITTLE WOUNDED GIRL HID FROM THE PEOPLE AND THE WORK AROUND ME…. UNTIL I was finally in a safe and loving relationship… and after getting HORRIFICALY TRIGGERED AFTER going to see the Book of Mormon Broadway play close to 2 years ago.

Between leaving the church in my 20s and up until I was in my mid 50s, I had absolutely no association with anyone LDS except my parent and a few LDS friends. But No one harassed me about leaving the church.

I am grateful now that I got triggered from going to see the play…… because I am no longer hiding this DEEP DARK SECRET… the sweet and innocent little girl part of me is now being integrated and loved… and held with understanding and hope…

People, we NEED to stop LDS inc from doing these interviews…. My story is not the norm… However, I know that even if children are not horrifically molested as I was, the interview is ABSOLUTELY ABUSIVE AND EMOTIONALLY HARMFUL… and the fact that a certain percentage of the population are pedophiles is reason enough to NEVER let a Mormon bishop sequester a child into a bishops office and ask them anything sexual WHATSOEVER!!! PERIOD!!!

I also had sex in my late teens and I was made to go before a “court of love” … where I was asked specific details about my sexual experiences.  The stake president that sent me to the “court of love” would not even let me finish telling him about the bishop that had molested me.  I was just 19 at the time and I was still brainwashed into the whole Mormon mess…now that I look back,

I would wager a bet that he stopped me from telling him about the blessing from the bishop mid sentence AND put it all back on me knowing where I was going.  I was already being shamed from having sex at 19… and ACCORDING to the stake president –it was ALL my fault. Those 12 high council men sat there listening to me tell my sexual experiences and that alone was utterly traumatizing… without ever being physically touched like I had been by the bishop. THIS is a sick CULT… a horrible CULTURE ….

We NEED to do everything we can to protect children from this ABUSE!!!

I have been sitting here at my keyboard and letting myself freeform write… and the school teacher in me says, go back and reread… and edit out all the times you said the same thing as a repeat… but the adult in me who is working diligently to integrate the wounded little girl in me says, just copy this off this word doc … and paste it … share it as it… typos and all…. And add my voice NOW… and help create the awareness we need to STOP this from happening in the future!!!

One more thing to add… Back about a year ago… when I got majorly triggered after seeing THE play… I was lashing out … I was angry… I was so upset… and I called several sexual assault attorneys… I shared about what happened to me. The bishop is dead… it was years ago… but I was not “able” to speak out until recently. One of these attorneys told me there wasn’t much he could do… he wished he could…but statute of limitations in the state where this happened is passed… etc… BUT THEN he called me back. He told me that he had ALREADY dealt with cases with the LDS church…

HE told me that he called and spoke with an attorney for the church that he had worked with already… He told me that the name of the attorney is Von G. Keetch… yep, the General Authority Keetch…. The attorney told me that he didn’t tell Keetch my name… just a bit about what happened to me. Keetch told him that “They” would be willing to pay for counseling for me… AND that “They” would also meet with me personally and have me tell them in person what happened …AND that “They” could compensate me with a monetary compensation … and in turn, I would be expected to sign a legal agreement that I would NEVER publicly speak about what happened to me.

This weekend, I watched the movie “Spotlight” for the second time… IF you haven’t seen this movie about the Catholic molest coming out, YOU NEED to watch it.  I identify so much with things in that movie… like the man who tells one of the reporter team members that he HAD NEVER EVEN TOLD HIS WIFE THAT HE WAS A VICTIM OF A PRIEST MOLESTING HIM… I CAN so relate.  I have two ex husbands that I never told.  I was still very immature and just trying to HIDE the wounded little girl.  Now, I am in an amazingly safe relationship. I couldn’t even bring this up to heal until I was finally SAFE emotionally and THAT wasn’t until I was in my mid 50s…. I share this for anyone who is still struggling with a childhood molestation issue.

I now have a very close friend that I have never met in person… I met him through a Facebook group.  He was ALSO molested by his bishop when he was a boy.  When I wrote about what happened to me, he private messaged me AND TO THIS DAY he has ONLY told two people.  Me and his therapist.  But we talk on the phone regularly.  We support each other and understand each other like no one else in our lives can.  He was TBM and JUST had started looking into the CES letter stuff and visiting post-mo and ex-mo social media groups when he saw my post.  He has since turned in his resignation and been able to start to heal… so, if you resonate with what I am sharing, YOU ARE NOT ALONE… even if it wasn’t a bishop… but another adult when you were a child, this is really difficult stuff to deal with.

One last thing and I will post this.

If Keetch was so willing to sit down and hear my story and offer a monetary compensation for MY SILENCE, imagine how many have taken the “Money”… My research tells me that (except for the one case you can find in a google search for around $3 million dollars)… they offer $30,000 to $40,000 dollars for this HUSH money… There are probably a lot of people out there who would take that amount and it could help pay off their debt or help with putting a kid through college… BUT THEY can NOT silence me with thirty or forty thousand dollars… and I have insurance that pays for weekly therapy as I am still processing and integrating all the compartments I put all of this in JUST to survive.

I want to be able to speak out when someone can benefit from my story and say that I am a “Survivor” … and not a “Victim”… I was “Silent”… and hid this for many years. Not anymore!!!!

Click HERE for the petition that Amy endorses in order to protect children from this abuse.  Please take the time to SIGN it.

Is It Happening in My Stake?

imageThis afternoon, I sent this e-mail to my Stake President and Bishop.  Both are very good men.

Dear President ______ and Bishop __________,

Tonight, I’m having an interview regarding the petition initiative:  Protect The Children–Stop Mormon Masturbation Interviews.  

I have been saying that I believed these questions were no longer being asked in our stake.  However, I was just sent a copy of a memo from the Seventies.  It gives instructions that “worthiness interviews need to be specific and explicit.”

As a result, I’d like to ask the question again.  Are stake and ward leaders following this instruction to pose “specific and explicit” sexual questions to our children, anywhere in the age range from 11 to 17? 

Tons of people have reported that this is happening all over the church.  Tonight, I’d like to confirm in advance of the interview whether or not it is happening in our stake.

As always, thanks for all you do,

Sam Young

To all who read this:  Join 1,917 Others to Protect our Children

SIGN…THE…PETITION!    Click HERE.

Other Resources

Testimonials of masturbation interviews.  Click HERE.

Testimonials of interviews about orgasm and sexual positions.  Click HERE.

How to talk to your kids about masturbation.  Click HERE.

Is masturbation a sin?  Click HERE.

 

Calling Stake & Ward Leaders to Stop Masturbation Interviews

imageTonight, I send this e-mail to the stake presidency, the bishoprics and stake high councilmen in the Houston Texas South Stake.

Greetings All,

We have a great stake with wonderful leaders.  Thanks for all you do.

This e-mail is about a practice that likely is not happening in our stake.  At least, I hope it’s not.  But, it appears to be a widespread practice in many other areas of the church.  I have grandkids that will soon be entering our youth programs.  I’d like to ask for your help to insure that this practice doesn’t continue.

A few months ago, I discovered something disturbing.  It happened to my daughter when she was 12 years old.  During a bishop’s youth interview she was asked about masturbation.   Even though she had no idea what it meant, she was embarrassed.  After the interview, she asked her friends.  They weren’t familiar with the term either.  She googled it.  Of course, up popped pornographic images and descriptions.   Effectively, my daughter was introduced to masturbation and pornography by the bishop.  I asked if this question was ever posed again during her YW years.  She responsonded:  “All the time!”

I was outraged.  I had no idea these questions were being asked.  My daughter’s innocence was violated.  My rights and responsibility to protect my child were abrogated and circumvented.

Since finding out about my daughter’s experience, I have become aware that this is still happening to children throughout the church.  Many members have reported the harm, the shame and the lasting damage they have endured from these questions. 

As a young man, I was never asked invasive sexual questions.  I served as a bishop for 5 years.  Never once did I ask any child or adult about masturbation.

Here’s what I’m asking.  I’ve created a petition to raise visibility for this issue.  Please lend your support by adding your signature.

If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me.

To see the petition—click HERE

All my very best wishes to your families and in your callings,

Sam Young

If You Haven’t Signed Yet…Please Help Protect Our LDS Children

Link to the Petition to stop Mormon Masturbation Interviews.  Click HERE.

Testimonials of masturbation interviews.  Click HERE.

Testimonials of interviews about orgasm and sexual positions.  Click HERE.

Is masturbation a sin?  Click HERE.

How to talk to your kids about masturbation.  Click HERE.

Protect The Children–Stop Mormon Masturbation Interviews

Lion

These interviews are dead wrong.

Let’s stand up together.  Let’s speak out together.  Let’s do what is right… what is right for our kids.

I invite you to sign the petition.

Click Here:  Protect the Children–Stop Mormon Masturbation Interviews

Whether you are a parent or grandparent.  An aunt or an uncle.  A member or former member.  Or…simply a human being who is concerned with what we are doing to our Mormon kids.  Please register your call to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for this practice to cease.

Resources & Testimonials

Testimonials of masturbation interviews.  Click HERE.

Testimonials of interviews about orgasm and sexual positions.  Click HERE.

Is masturbation a sin?  Click HERE.

How to talk to your kids about masturbation.  Click HERE.

 

Masturbation…Once a Week? Or is Daily Better?

Horror_

I’ve now written 6 blog posts about the Mormon church’s masturbation interviews with children.  Three were posted in the last 12 days.  This will be #4 in the past 2 weeks.  So why do I continue writing?

Well…I’m now receiving feedback from parents who have resolved to protect their children from inappropriate probing questions behind closed doors.  Here’s what I’m thinking.  Each blog post is worth it…

  • If…it alerts one parent to the dangers of bishopric masturbation interviews.
  • If…it helps one parent resolve to protect their children at church.
  • If…it saves one child from being subjected to a harmful masturbation interview.
  • If…it saves one child from inappropriate and damaging shame and guilt.
  • If…it saves one child from decades of sexual dysfunction.
  • If…it prevents sexual repression from a future marriage that is not scarred by years of childhood probings by untrained men, behind closed doors, all alone, without parental knowledge or consent.

So there it is.  Masturbation interviews….should I write warnings once a week?  Or is daily better?

Parents Protecting Their Children

Here’s a sampling of recent messages sent to me.  Good for these active, believing church members.

Message #1:   Prompted by the topic of Sam Young’s recent posts (bishops asking probing, detailed, sexual questions in closed-door interviews with underage girls), I have talked with my spouse as it concerns our daughter and potential future interviews with priesthood leaders. I related to her some of the disgusting things that can happen behind the closed doors of priesthood leaders’ offices.  My wife agreed that our daughter will NEVER undergo an interview with anyone in a church setting alone/by herself.  If my daughter ever goes to an interview, we are in agreement that at least one of us as her parent will be present in the room at all times.  And if some bishop insists that she can’t progress with baptism/whatever unless he interviews her alone… well, then so be it!

Message #2:  I broached this subject with my husband and he agreed as well. Because I don’t have trust that the request will always be adhered to by the bishop/local leaders, I went to my daughter and discussed with her the decision her dad and I had made. I let her know this is a boundary that we have made as a family and that she has the authority and power to uphold that boundary should she ever be asked for an interview by herself.

Message #3:   This is exactly what I have approved with my wife. What a gift to your children. I wonder if enough people start demanding this if the church will make a statement or adjust a policy, either to open it up, or shut it down. A friend recently told me that his bishop told him in detail HOW to masturbate BEFORE he had a chance to figure it out on his own, yikes. His parents would have been furious.  I’m glad my kids won’t have these discussions.

Message #4:  I saw your posts about inappropriate questions bishops ask and was totally shocked!  So, I asked a large Mormon mom group about their experiences with bishops asking their children, or even themselves, inappropriate questions.  I personally have only been asked if I was following the law of chastity.  So, it never occurred to me that anyone would be asked anything else.  I’m getting notifications left and right of new stories.  Lots of totally inappropriate ones.

Someone’s 12 year old daughter was asked if she had engaged in sexual intercourse and he explained what that meant.  Others said that a bishop explained ways you could masturbate.  One woman who was baptized a few years ago was angry and upset no one told her masturbation was breaking the law of chastity.

There was story after story.  It was so shocking.  As a newer member, I appreciate you posting this.  I will not be letting a bishop ask my children anything without myself there.  Lots of women in my group came to that same conclusion.  So, thank you so much for talking about difficult things.

Message #5:   Called my ex to talk about my son’s upcoming baptism interview, ready to fight about closed doors and demand a parent in the room.  Surprisingly, he cut me off at the top of my inquiry and said, “I will be in the room during all of our boys’ (we have two) interviews from here until their mission interview at 18. The bishop has been warned to never ask about masturbation. Ever.

Message #6:   A 13 year old female friend in the 70s was asked by a pillar of the community bishop to describe HOW she masturbated. Under no circumstances should any parent allow a child alone with a bishop. Especially considering they have apparently been instructed to discuss “chastity” issues with 7 year olds in baptismal interviews.

Insightful Comment from a Former Bishop

“I can’t believe they still think masturbation is a sin. That’s another thing I realized as bishop. I masturbated my whole life, during my mission and all. I figured if I could be called as a bishop and masturbated, God didn’t care. I never asked anyone about it. To the few people who tried to confess it, I told them not to worry about it, and said it wasn’t a big deal at all. When I heard members of the stake presidency preach about it, I thought to myself, these men are such hypocrites. They masturbate all the time, and they preach against it.”

P.S.

Do you disapprove of private, closed door, masturbation interviews with your children?  If so, feel free to express disapproval on the Common Consent Register found HERE.

Get Your Thoughts and Probing Questions Out of Our Daughters’ PANTIES!!

Disgusted Girl

***Warning***

If you are OK with an older untrained man taking a 12 year old girl, alone, behind closed doors, without parental knowledge or consent, to ask personal sexual questions….DO NOT READ ON!!!!  You’re good to go.

Calling It Like It Is

No more pussy footing around.  A crappy spade is a crappy spade.  More & more continues to come out.  The church leadership has affected my own children more than I knew.  Just today, I found out additional things that were done to my young children.   So, here goes.

Bishops….get your thoughts and probing questions out of our daughter’s panties.

Bishops…get your thoughts and probing questions out of our sons’ underpants.

Bishops…masturbation and sex are totally inappropriate topics to be discussed with our minor children.

Bishops…shaming and guilting our children is NOT acceptable.

Bishops…interrogating our children about orgasm, penetration or sexual positions is sexual abuse of minors.  It’s a serious and nasty business.  STOP IT!!!

Blatant Disregard for Parental Protection

Listen to this story from a mother trying to protect her son.  Here are her words.

Below is an email I sent to my children’s bishop in November 2016 just after my son (Tyler) turned 16 and was being interviewed for the position of priest in the church (he was denied and still has not received it). I told my spouse (Bryan) before this interview that he had to be present with our Tyler and not allow him to be questioned about sexual matters. He missed my understanding on that and Tyler was questioned about masturbation anyway.

Dear Bishop,   Bryan informed me a little while ago that Tyler was asked questions of a sexual nature during his last interview.  I had specifically requested that my son not be asked those questions.  I find it highly inappropriate for a full-grown adult to ask questions of a sexual nature to an adolescent.  I don’t want him to feel shame and guilt for his actions.  The shame and guilt has caused Bryan so much pain and self-loathing over the years.  I don’t want Tyler to feel that way.  Please respect my wishes when it comes to Tyler, and all the other children in my family.  I know that it’s the request of the brethren to address these with the youth, but I am not comfortable with it.  Please refrain from this questioning to my children.  

Respectfully,  Shellie Smith

Two weeks following, he re-interviewed Tyler without my husband or I being present, and again asked about his masturbation habit.  I told my children and my husband that the kids were not allowed to be interviewed at all anymore.

Soon thereafter, my spouse and I, along with our 3 children, stopped attending.

Here’s a bishop whose thoughts and probing questions were directed into the underpants of a minor.  The mother had forbidden it.  The bishop had committed to respect the parental direction.  He violated the trust of the parents.  He violated the privacy of a 16 year old.  He drove a family out of the church.

Youth Interviews?  Nope!  They’re Masturbation Interviews

It turns out that this practice is super common in the church, at least in the United States.  In fact, it may now be a universal practice for all bishops to go verbally probing into the panties of our 12 to 17 year old children.   Disgusting!!!

Orgasm Interviews

Today, I spoke with a past member of a stake presidency.  He said that his stake president instructed the bishops to ask explicit questions when someone confessed a sexual indiscretion.  How common is this?  I’ve now heard too many stories to think it’s isolated.  Do you really want your 16 year old to be asked about her orgasms, her boyfriends orgasms, amount of penetration,  and sexual positions?  Again despicable instructions from a stake president.  All without the knowledge of the parents and behind those damn closed doors, all alone.

Raising Up a Lying Generation

So, what’s a kid to do when she/he is asked a shocking question whose answer could be laden with guilt and shame.  Would lying be a strong possibility?  This weekend, I asked 43 people if they lied to their bishop during youth interviews.  31 said yes.  75% learned to lie during their masturbation interviews.

Daddy Adult Daughter Talk

A few hours ago, I had this conversation with one of my daughters.

Dad:  Were you ever asked inappropriate and uncomfortable questions during your bishop youth interviews?

Daughter:  Of course.

Dad:  Did you ever lie during those interviews?

Daughter:  Yes, but not always.

Daughter:  At BYU, the bishop asked very uncomfortable questions the first week of school.  I quit going to church. (She only attended BYU for 6 months.)

Dad:  Why did you stop going to church?

Daughter:  It was too uncomfortable to look at this man after what he had asked me?

This all came as a shock to me.  During my 4 years as a student at BYU, I was never asked about masturbation.  Just a simple, “Do you keep the law of chastity?”

Lying For Your Mission

Apparently, being masturbation-free is a requirement to receive a mission calling.  With all the peer pressure, parental pressure and cultural pressure, would a 17 year old lie in order to pass this requirement?  The coercion factors are certainly there.  But, I have no data.  Only this.  A recent mission president in my area is quoted as having said, “If I had to send missionaries home for masturbation, I’d have to send half of the kids home.”

Justification for Masturbation Interviews

Two people have now offered this reasoning, “The ordinances of the church must be protected.”

Really?  I’m calling BS and hypocrisy on this one.  Last year, there were over 200,000 converts to the church.  They entered the sacred waters of baptism.  How well did we do at protecting the ordinance of baptism from…..masturbators?  We did super poorly.  In fact, we did not protect this ordinance one wit.  The missionaries DO NOT teach that masturbation is a sin.  Why not?  Don’t we want to protect the ordinance from people who masturbate?  Nope.  We want baptisms.

Do we teach people that after their family is baptized, an untrained older man will take their 12 year old daughters behind closed doors and put his thoughts, words and probing questions into her panties?  All alone?  Without the new converts’ knowledge or permission?  Nope.  Why not?  We want baptisms.

Why the Masturbation Fixation?

When I was a kid, we had youth interviews.  Never once did I have a masturbation interview.  At BYU, they were bishop interviews.  No probing questions into my underwear.  When I was bishop, I conducted youth interviews.  Never once did I put my thoughts, words or any probing questions into the panties of a young girl.

So, why is it happening today?

We have a scriptural record detailing over 3,000 years of God’s dealings with His children on earth.  3,000 years of prophetic pronouncements, encouragements and warnings.  And…3,000 years of…silence…on…masturbation.  Total crickets.  Old Testament and New Testament—Nope & nope.  Book of Mormon—Nope.  It’s the most correct book, written for our day and contains the fullness of the gospel.  Yet, not a word on masturbation.  D&C?  That’s a big nope, too.  It contains the revelations of the Restoration of all things.  Masturbation is so important that God didn’t issue one single word of concern.  The Pearl of Great Price?  If ever there was to be a pearl of wisdom regarding masturbation interviews it should be in this gem.  Nope.  A complete home-run of nopes.

But, I haven’t mentioned the most important source of divine counsel and commandment…the words of our Savior.  By this point, I’m sure you are aware that even Jesus Christ didn’t associate any shame or guilt with this personal sexual practice.

So where did the church’s masturbation fixation originate?

Here’s a speculation.  In the last few years, the church has disavowed and condemned our past racist doctrine, teachings, policies and practices.  They were in place for most of the history of our church.  Where did they come from?  They were simply made up under the influence of the surrounding society.  No revelation from God.  Just made up by men.  So, that’s all I speculate.  Our masturbation concerns have been made up by men, heavily influenced by societal norms.

However, society stops way short of shaming a child, alone, behind closed doors.  To those outside the church, this practice is revolting.  Just as it is to me.

Following Christ’s Example

There are many who are highly critical of me for criticizing a practice found in the church.  They say that if I don’t like what the church is doing I ought to leave.

That’s the exact attitude of the religious leaders of Christ’s time.  A hallmark of the Savior’s ministry was criticism of His leaders.  Often, in very harsh terms.  They wanted him to shut up.  Ultimately, they did shut him up with execution.

Are we not told to emulate Christ’s example? Of course.  This is part of my attempt at discipleship.

P.S.

421 members have chosen to actively participate in the Law of Common Consent.  I urge you to consider it, too.  Click HERE for the link to the Common Consent Register.

 

Did You Orgasm?

OrgasmYesterday’s Dirty & Damaging Closed Door Counsel

For decades, Stake Presidents and Bishops counseled gay men to do something totally misguided.  Their recommendation to homosexual young men was to get married.  Once they were hitched and came face to face with a naked woman, their gayness would magically go away.

This uninspired guidance has resulted in many, many unhappy  marriages.  Heartache.  Divorce.  Broken families.  Today, we know that this was ridiculous and damaging advice coming from trusted Bishops and Stake Presidents.  Well meaning?  Probably.  Improper?  Absolutely.

The horrid advice of telling gay men to just get married, had a direct affect on MY family.  One of my daughters was engaged to a awesome man.  We all loved him and thought we knew him well.  Today, we still love him and count him as a great friend.  But, there was something that we did not know.  He was gay.  Bishops and Stake Presidents had counseled with him for years.  And guess what he was told.  MARRY SAM YOUNG’S DAUGHTER AND YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY WILL GO AWAY.  Yeah…that’s right.  A high church leader telling a gay man to marry MY daughter.  That was wrong.  My daughter was wronged.  Her fiancé was wronged.  I and my family were wronged.  All at the hands of the church.

Fortunately, ten days before the wedding bells were to ring, warning bells sounded instead.  The temple marriage was called off.  My daughter is now happily married to a heterosexual man.  My almost son-in-law is now happily married to a gay man.  In the end, all worked out as it should.  But, the damage to the psyche of all involved has taken a long time to heal.  If it has.

Decades ago, members should have been informed as to what counsel was being given to their gay kids.  Hopefully, we would have stood up and protested in order to protect our precious children.

Today’s Dirty & Damaging Closed Door Counsel

Bad things are going on with our children behind closed doors.  I thought I’d heard it all.  I hadn’t.  It’s sickening.

First, it is a common practice for 12 year old children, without their parents’ knowledge or consent to be questioned about masturbation.  One on one, all alone, with an older man.  This is a gross practice and should be called to a halt.

It has now come to my knowledge that many Bishops and Stake Presidents take the interview license, that we have allowed them, to a new level of depravity.  How would you like your 16 year old daughter to be asked, “Do you orgasm when you masturbate?”

Or try this one on for size.  Your 17 year old daughter confesses sex with a young man.  The bishop wants details.  “How many times did you orgasm?”  “Did your boyfriend orgasm?”  “How did he orgasm?”  “What kind of sexual positions were involved?”

What kind of crap is this?  All going on behind the closed doors of our chapels.

These kinds of questions are outrageous.  They are pornographic.  It causes lasting shame and guilt.  The harm done often persists into sexual relationships after marriage.

How do I know that masturbation is being discussed with 12 year olds all the way to decades-old members?  My own children have told me so.  I have openly asked many friends who have shared details of their masturbation interviews .

How do I know that orgasms and sexual positions are being discussed?  Well, my kids are NOT the source of this information.  I haven’t dared ask them yet.  If it was discussed with them, I’m going to be DAMN angry!  But, I have asked my friends.   When I posted my question, it received more comments than almost any other post I’ve ever made.

Until one week ago, I had no idea that these sexual details were being discussed with our kids…or adults for that matter.   And I was a Bishop for 5 years, for heaven’s sake.  So, why would I ask my friends if orgasms had ever been the topic of a bishop’s interview?  On last week’s post criticizing the practice of masturbation interviews, two people mentioned all the other stuff they were asked about.

Just like the horrid counsel to gay men to get married, these detailed sexual interviews MUST STOP!!!

I know that many who read this will say, “I was never asked, so this isn’t happening.”  I know there are Bishops who will say, “I never asked these questions, so it isn’t happening.”  Well fine.  For your reading pleasure or disgust, I’ve listed a smattering of responses below.

Testimonials of Inappropriate Bishop and Stake President Interviews

I posted the following question on Facebook.

“In a recent thread, 2 people said that they were asked about their ORGASMS during bishop interviews or in church courts. What the hell!!!  How did I miss out on this stuff while I served as bishop?  I’m super glad that I did.  Bare shoulders are NOT pornographic. Questioning a woman about her orgasms IS pornographic.  I know that it’s common for priesthood leaders to ask about masturbation. But, I had never heard of orgasmic queries. So, here’s my question, were you ever asked about orgasms in a bishop’s interview or in a disciplinary council?  If so, how old were you?”

Here are some of the responses.

Woman:  Two different bishops over the course of my life have asked me specifically about orgasm. The first time, I was 12, and it was just like, a youth interview that that bishop did regularly with all of the youth in our ward.  He asked about masturbation, and then specifically about orgasm, even after I answered “no” to the first question. 

The second bishop who asked me this question was when I was 21 or so, and I had turned to my singles ward bishop because I had been advised, and believed he would help me deal with the aftermath of (what I had recently come to understand had been) an emotionally, physically, and sexually *abusive* relationship. 

Instead of support and counsel, he asked me if I had ever had an orgasm from the “contact” during that relationship, and when I was honest with him that I had (as happens with many MANY survivors) he instructed me that I needed to go through the repentance process, for “my part” in what had happened.

Woman:  Yes.  In disciplinary council…it was terrible!

Man:  I was asked this as a 15 year old boy by my bishop…..I hated going to him.

Woman:  This happened when I was in my mid 20s, had 4 babies under 5, and was grieving my husband’s infidelity. It almost killed me:  My husband had an affair early in our marriage. Our ward split during his year of difellowship & the New bishop wanted to know every detail of their sexual contacts: positions, physical locations, number of orgasms. You name it. And he wanted me to be there while this was discussed “so that we are all on the same page.” Our sexual relationship never recovered & much of the reason was that six months of voyeuristic invasion & the terrible humiliation I was subjected to. I don’t want anyone else to suffer this.  (Sam:  This is an egregious example of the dreadful damage probing interviews can cause.)

Man:  Yes.  I was 12 or 13.

Woman:  I had a bishop ask me if I reached orgasm. I was a teenager. Sick, sick, sick.

Woman:  I am a woman and was asked about orgasms by 2 separate bishops in interviews. Once in high school and once in college (that same bishop commented on my shirt and how it was too revealing). I was also asked very detailed, inappropriate questions that I didn’t realize were inappropriate until much later after going to therapy.

Man:  Oh yeah. My Bishop did. That was a routine part of the masturbation confession.

Woman:  15 years old. My bishop asked about my boyfriend’s orgasm then asked if I had reached orgasm, if I had enjoyed it or felt guilty, the whole shebang.  It’s been more than 10 years since this, I’ve been married for 6 years, and I’m JUST getting to a point of having a healthy and happy relationship with sex and my body. These people are untrained and do lasting damage because of their lack of knowledge. Something has to change.

Woman:   I was 17 when I was asked. In front of a bunch of men too. The most humiliating experience of my life.

Man:  I had a Bishop ask where I had “finished” meaning in someone’s mouth, hand, etc…

Woman:  Oh this definitely happened. It happened to me as a youth and as an adult, like so often and commonplace that I thought it irrelevant in this thread.  It happened after I was raped at BYU but I was so traumatized by the rape that I don’t remember being able to answer his questions at all.

Woman:  I was called into a bishop’s interview. He asked me how my love life was.
I confessed to ‘messing around’ with a guy I really loved.  I was still a virgin though, because you know, no sex!  My bishop asked me to provide details. I obediently told my bishop, blushing the entire time.  I was asked about having an orgasm. I had. He wanted to know if the guy had. He had.

Man:  Had a friend tell me in his missionary application interview he came forth and confessed to intercourse. The bishop asked him if he achieved orgasim. He was shocked and asked him if it mattered. The bishop replied saying it did matter because it would weigh on his disicion of his worthiness.

Women:  It happened to me about a month ago while I was meeting with my Stake President in conjunction with asking for a Temple Sealing Cancellation from my predatory ex.

Woman:  After my mission I had a little affair with a women!  It was wonderful!  It resulted in a disciplinary council.   In that court was my Bishop plus 11 other men. The questions they asked me were horrific!!  I had one guy even asked how two women could have sex! How many times….. Where we had sex. And…. if I had an orgasm.  I left feeling like the most horrible person on earth.  I was sooooo embarrassed. I couldn’t hardly talk.

Man:  I was very lucky in having pretty darn good bishops all my life. One did tell me that my mission would make me straight, but I think he meant well (and I’m glad I went anyhow). But I’ve heard too many horror stories about prurient, over-detailed interrogations to believe that it’s a tiny problem.

Woman:  Detailed–DETAILED–answers needed for the court of “love.” Positions, types, frequency, everything.

Woman:  Yes, I was.. like that made the difference if I was worthy or not. If the guy orgasmed it was fine.. I just could not. So freaking ridiculous.

Woman:  Yes. I was 19 years old

Man:   In high school my bishop asked me if I ejaculated when my girlfriend had her hand in my pants. I hadn’t but I wasn’t sure so I said yes. I wasn’t able to take the sacrament for months because of my response. I dealt with months of shame for about 10 seconds of touching in the wrong place. So ridiculous.

Woman:   I was during a “court of love”. It was 8 years ago and I pushed back about why it mattered.  It was dropped.  It also bothered me greatly.

Man:  Me and my then fiancée were asked:

  • Did either of you orgasm?
  • Did you use a condom?
  • What did you do to prevent pregnancy?
  • Did your garments come off?
  • Where were you?
  • What positions where you in?

In the end, I asked if we should film it next time so he could appropriately determine our level of sin. He didn’t find that funny.

What To Do

I can’t believe that any good member, especially a parent, would bury their head in the sand and sit idly by.  These are your kids.  This is our church.  This is not the church of the Apostles.  Nor is it the church of the Bishops and Stake Presidents.  It’s the Church of Jesus Christ.  It’s also the church of its members, the Latter-day Saints.  Jesus has given us, the rank and file member, the right and responsibility to be intimately involved in the governance of His church.  Our Savior called it the Law of Common Consent.

Here are some suggestions.  These practices can only be fixed if we bring them to light.  Talk about them.  DON’T LET YOUR CHILD OR GRANDCHILD BE A VICTIM.

  • Talk to your church friends about the potential interview damage to our children.
  • Talk to your adolescent and grown children.
  • Talk to the local leaders, Relief Society Presidents, EQ Presidents, HP Group Leaders, YM & YW Presidents.
  • Talk to your Bishops and Stake Presidents.

Quid Pro Quo

The church has produced a pamphlet entitled “For The Strength of Youth.”  It is designed to help all members know the standards of the church.

I’m responding with my own pamphlet “For the Protection of Youth.”  It is designed to let all leaders understand the strict license they can take with our children.

For the Protection of Youth

  1. No interviews with minors without the explicit consent of the parents.
  2. No one-on-one interviews behind closed doors. Either a parent is to be in the room or second adult, approved by the parents.
  3. No questions about masturbation…ever!
  4. No questions about orgasm, sexual positions, or any other detailed sexual matters…ever!
  5. No shaming lessons about chewed gum, licked cupcake, etc.
  6. No lessons about violation of chastity being next to murder in gravity.
  7. No lessons intimating that a person is better dead chaste, than alive and unchaste.

Take back and embrace Christ’s gospel of Common Consent.  For the sake of your children.  For the sake of your grandchildren.  For the sake of following the Savior.

 

P.S.

400 members have chosen to actively participate in the Law of Common Consent.  I urge you to consider it, too.  Click HERE for the link to the Common Consent Register.

Happy 12th Birthday! Now, Let Me Ask….

BirthdayPrincess

….Do You Masturbate?

What kind of a sick and twisted birthday question is that for a 12 year old kid?

What kind…you ask?  Why it’s the birthday present that is given to our children every year in the only true and living church.  The Mormon church.  My church.  And I’m ashamed of it.

We don’t stop there.  Half birthdays are also celebrated with the very same gift.

Happy birthday!  It’s that wonderful time again.  Time to be isolated in a small room, alone, except for an older man, behind closed doors.

Happy, birthday!  Do you masturbate?

Happy, happy birthday!!  Oh, you don’t know what that means?  Let me explain.

Happy, happy, happy birthday!!!  Do you touch yourself down there?

Happy, happy, happy, happy birthday!  Oh, where’s down there?  I mean down there, right between your legs.

So…You Don’t Believe This is Happening to Our Kids?

The church has changed in many ways since I grew up.  As a youth, never once was I asked about masturbation by a bishop, stake president, or their counselors.  Never once during my 5 years as bishop did I ask any kids or adults if they engaged in masturbation

Two months ago, I asked one of my youngest daughters if this question had ever been asked during her youth interviews.  “All the time.”  Crap!  I had no idea.

Last year, a good friend of the family sat in on her 12 year old daughter’s youth interview.  She had given instructions to the bishop that no interview should be conducted alone with her child.  And…that masturbation was not to be discussed.  The meeting went fine until…”When you view media, do you touch yourself down there?”  Mom terminated the interview.  Her little girl was left confused about the question.

Last year I asked my local ward and stake leaders if they queried kids about masturbation.  I couldn’t get a straight answer.

Real Life Happy-Birthday-Interview Stories

Listen and see if you want your children to have these experiences.  Read and see if you are proud of our LDS masturbation meetings.

Our interview practices do damage to both boys and girls.  I’m not an expert, but after discussing with lot’s of folks, I’d say the harm is actually more severe with our daughters.

Girl:

I was kind of surprised and extremely self conscious.  Masturbation was never really emphasized with girls.  Somehow it never occurred to me that I wasn’t supposed to  do it until this old dude, I barely knew, asked me about it at my birthday interview.  So, of course, I lied.

Girl:

I still remember being as young as 10 and being challenged by a bishop about masturbation. I believe, till this day, that those conversations are borderline sexual assault. What bothers me most is a bishop, unsolicited, would go on to explain masturbation to me.

Boy:

I was asked about it as I graduated from primary.  He asked about girls, etc.  I had no experience and remember being confused at the questions.  After that, I avoided interviews like the plague.

Girl:

I lived in a very conservative Mormon bubble.  When I was 16, my bishop, who just so happened to be my uncle, called me in for an interview.  I was dating a boy from another ward and I think he wanted to make sure we were keeping things rated PG.  He asked me straight out about masturbation.  I was so naive at the time that I thought only boys could masturbate.  I did’t know girls could.  When he questioned me about it, I was mortified!  Did he think I knew about my boyfriend’s private time?  He laughed.  He actually laughed and said I should stop pretending that I hadn’t touched my self “down there.”  Again, I really did not know I could!  I didn’t know how or where or anything about it!  He didn’t believe me, kept pushing for information and started getting graphic!!!  So, I cried.  I think he realized I was being honest and stopped the conversation abruptly.  He didn’t apologize for anything and told me to not go exploring on myself.  I never told my parents this, since my dad was the stake president and was never home.  This man was my uncle and would be over at my house with his family every Sunday for dinner and our families would vacation together.  I refused to accept any more interviews with him.  Crazy stuff, huh.  (Sam:  Nope, it’s not crazy stuff.  It’s sick and twisted stuff.)

My oldest daughter is about to turn 12 and the last thing I want is to have her mind filled with shame and guilt and go through “worthiness” interviews like mine.

Girl:

When I was 12, I was pulled into the Bishop’s office during mutual and asked all kinds of sexual questions, very detailed questions.  He also asked me about all my beehive friends, and if I knew if they were doing anything immoral.  I later found out that there was a rumor that the beehive class was sexually active, and he was going to find out the truth.  I am still traumatized from that experience.  If only I could go back in time.

I should also add that he cried the entire time he was asking me those questions.  Imagine a grown man with tears streaming down his face, asking a 12 year old girl if she’s ever touched a penis.  It’s actually pretty comical thinking about it.  (Sam:  It’s inexcusable, tragic, super dangerous and should never be allowed to happen!!!)

Girl:

I was asked by my stake president when I was in 8th grade and doing baptisms for the dead with my cousins.  It was a small Mormon town.  He was also my 8th grade history & English teacher, and principal of my intermediate school.  I wasn’t sure what he meant, but I knew enough to be mortified.  An older, more worldly cousin warned me to say “no” to anything he asked.  Overall, it was a traumatic experience.  I couldn’t bear to look him in the eye or even answer a question in class after that.

Boy:

Never remember being asked about it.  I was always the one who brought it up.  My Bishop, when I was like 16, said, “Ummmm, I wouldn’t worry about it.  I don’t think it will keep you out of the Celestial Kingdom.  I think it was a great attitude.  Sadly, I didn’t believe him and went on to torture myself with shame.

Girl:

My experience with a bishop wasn’t asking about masturbation, but me confessing on my 16th birthday. I waited knowing I would be called I’m for an interview. I was a scared 16 yr old telling a man about masturbation. He requested I not partake of the sacrament.

We got a new bishop a couple Sundays later and I had to talk about it all again with the new bishop, except for this time around, he called me in one Tuesday night and said he talked to the stake president and he needed to know if when I masturbated, I stuck my fingers inside. I was so embarrassed and ashamed of myself. During my transition I tried to think of anything that happened to me personally, and it came to me… that was none of his business. What does it matter to him? As a 16 yr old, I was trying to be obedient. (Sam: This is so horrid. Why would any parent risk such abusive treatment of their precious child? I am so sorry.)

Girl:

I was DEFINITELY asked about masturbation.  This is a major trauma from my adolescent age.  I felt guilty ALL…THE…TIME.  Like there was something really wrong with me cause I couldn’t stop the urges.  So frustrating to even think about now.  Just ridiculous.

Girl:

Masturbation shame is a reason behind suicides in the church.  Mark my words.  Nobody talks about it, but it’s true.

Girl:

Sadly, so many of us have a story to tell.  I’ve wondered many times what my teens and 20s would have been like without the heavy burden of guilt and shame I carried thanks to several bishops who may as well have had revolving doors to their offices.  Shame on them for their lack of spiritual sensitivity and discernment.  I developed an eating disorder in my teens as a way of coping with the pent-up sexual energy in my body.  The bingeing/purging ended when my eyes were open to the TRUTH at age thirty.  I sure wish someone would have tried to enlighten me sooner.  It would have made all the difference for me.  Thank you, Sam, for your boldness and courage in bringing attention to these matters.  (Sam:  Thank you my friend for sharing your story.  I was never asked about masturbation as a kid.  You should never have been asked either.  So sorry about that.)

Boy:

My stake president asked me, “Are you viewing anything in connection with masturbation?  I said, “Well, we have cable television.”  Then he told me, “If you do not overcome this, the day will come when you will not be worth a damn…to anyone.”  I already felt embarrassment and shame over this.  I  kind of suppressed the horrible feelings from his words.  But, this anger is now finally coming out years later.  For a certain kind of personality type, a statement like that could drive someone to suicide.

Girl:

I enjoyed “self love” all throughout my childhood without knowing what I was doing exactly.  As a pre-teen, I started to worry that something was wrong with me because in seminary and Sunday School I would hear references to “touching yourself.”  But, it was only directed towards the boys, not the girls.  I thought maybe something was wrong with my anatomy!  They wouldn’t even acknowledge that it was a pleasure girls could feel, all be it wrong and everything.

Then, a few years later in young women’s, a leader addressed the issue and told us that it was a sin you could not repent of unless you confessed to your bishop.  I learned that same in seminary.  I felt so horrible and for about a year I tried to stop.  I finally got the courage to call my bishop.  As a 16 year old girl, I drove myself to meet with an older man and talk about my sexuality.  So messed up.  He handled it well, but the whole situation was terrible.  I left feeling like I was the only girl to have ever confessed such a terrible sin.  Still to this day, when I see him I feel so much shame and awkwardness.

Of course, I couldn’t keep from doing the deed forever.  So, when I dreaded visiting him again, I talked to my mom.  She told me I didn’t need to confess next time and it was OK.  WHY DID SHE WAIT?!!!  She could have saved me from so much guilt and shame..Let alone putting myself in a very dangerous situation.

Now as an adult I’m so grateful I masturbated.  It means I knew what an orgasm felt like before getting married.  I could expect to feel pleasure from my husband and let him know what I liked!  I told all my married friends to figure it out before they got married.  Women should be proud of their pleasure and embrace every chance they can get to feel an orgasm.  It doesn’t always come easy for us!

When I think back to that experience in high school, I’m angry at a lot of people.  Especially my mom.  How could she have not been more concerned when she found out that I had met in secret with an older man?!  And discussed these things?  It’s so backwards.  (Sam:  I cried when at your question, Why did she wait?)

Mom About Her Son:

My Older son always talks about how much he hated those question.  I know a lot of kids feel really shamed by them.  I know a lot of adult members have stilted sex lives because sexual pleasure is made to sound so shameful.  It’s a travesty.

Girl:

I was DEFINITELY asked.  This is a major part of trauma from my adolescent age.  I felt guilty ALL…THE…TIME.  Like there was something really wrong with me cause I could stop the urges.  So frustrating to even think about now.  Just ridiculous.

Girl:

When I was in my teens, I actually did masturbate.  I felt like I was a freak of nature and felt so guilty.  So, I went in to “confess.”  I was told by my bishop, a PHD educated man, that if I didn’t stop, I’d turn into a lesbian.  Keep in mind, this was in the 70’s when it was totally NOT ok to be LGBTQ!  The fear and shame affected my hetero sex life and frankly still does.  This from a church led by direct revelation?  Of course, I was told to read “The Miracle of Forgiveness.”

Girl:

I think this is an important conversation that the Church needs to be having.  When I was in Beehives (1980-ish), the YW saw the video “Morality for Youth.”  Then we were all individually interviewed about “necking, petting and masturbation.”  Having figured masturbation out a few years earlier, I was shocked to learn that I was sinning.  I came clean with the bishop, who may have been more surprised than I was.  He gave me a humiliating scolding that I never forgot.  I struggle to be good, but would inevitably slip up.  However, after that first mortifying confession, I never admitted to it again.  I just figured I would cut out the middle man and go straight to God with any necessary repentance.  I felt sometimes guilty for not fessing up, which contributed to an overall feeling of unworthiness that followed me for a long, long time.  Learning that my children were getting drilled about masturbation in their interviews is one of the several things that finally pushed me away from the Church.

Girl:

I had a bishop at Ricks College make me sit next to him during an interview as he told me about HIS masturbation problem.  Masturbation was not the reason I was there.  I was there for getting caught with alcohol.  Maybe he was being nice and trying to relate with me.

Other Posts on This Appalling Practice

Behind Closed Doors–Don’t Let It Happen.  Click HERE.

I’m Going to Leave Before They Get Their Hands on My Baby Daughter.  Click HERE.

“I’m Going to Leave Before They Get Their Hands on My Baby Daughter”

danger

Recently, I was contacted by a struggling member of the church.  Here, I’ll call him Ron. He asked if we could get together for a one-on-one Talkeria.  Over the past year, Ron had been going through a painful and lonely faith transition…and wanted to talk about it.  I still view it as a great tragedy and travesty that there is no safe space inside the church for discussion.  We met for 3 hours.

This good brother has a young toddler.  During our chat, he made this startling statement.  “I’m going to leave the church before they get their hands on my baby daughter.”

I had never heard such a grim and jarring statement describing someone’s reason for getting out.

Mormon Stories #732, Scott Duke

Today, I heard something that made me think of my new friend, Ron.  Over the past couple of days, on the drive to and from work, I listened to a Mormon Stories Podcast.  In it, Scott Duke shares his fascinating and heartrending faith journey.  Heartbreaking on several fronts.

My attention was riveted until Scott shared a grim and jarring statement made by his Stake President.  He was being interviewed for his calling as a missionary.  Of course, masturbation was discussed.   Remember, what follows was said by a man who is viewed as having great authority—the Stake President.  The target of his comment was a young, inexperienced, and normal young man.

The Stake President’s words caught me totally off guard.  “If you don’t overcome this, the day will come when you are not worth a damn to anyone.”

To My Six Children

This Stake President’s chastisement is totally out of bounds.  It has the potential to do great damage.  If this were ever said to a loved one of mine, my retort would be:  “It’s YOU, Mr. Church Leader, who is not worth a damn to me.  Stay away from my child.”

We have a dreadful ritual lurking behind the closed doors in our church buildings.  An untrained man, in a position of authority, takes an innocent child behind those closed doors, alone, without a parent present, without parental permission, and asks the child about his or her masturbatory predilections.  This is a gross and dangerous practice.

Life may be like a box of chocolates.  But, some candies are corrupt and reprehensible. You never know what you are going to get when the door swings shut, isolating your child, alone, with an adult male who may say something idiotic like, “the day will come when you are not worth a damn to anyone.”

Why Are We Waiting?

As the only true church, we should be on the cutting edge of what is good, right and safe.

Fortunately, we jettisoned polygamy when society demanded it.  Mercifully, polyandry never caught on.  Fortuitously, we granted black people the priesthood 10 years after civil rights laws were passed.

Our society has moved beyond grown men asking inappropriate questions to children in private.  I do not know of another church that engages in this unfortunate practice.  I’m ashamed that my church still does.

Why are we waiting for this alarming custom to go away on its own?  It won’t.  I encourage my adult kids, and every other thinking and concerned adult, to end it RIGHT NOW….for your children’s sake.  Especially, for my grandchildren’s sake.

My friend, Ron, has now left the church.  He was not willing to wait for the changes.  His child was too precious to him.

What To Do

  1. Don’t let your child be interviewed without your permission.
  2. Be present, in the closed door room, during the interview.
  3. Inform your bishop of your conditions for youth interviews.  You are to be present. No discussion about masturbation or other sexual matters.  That is to be between you and your child ONLY.
  4. Inform your child that they are to let you know whenever any church leader requests a meeting with them.
  5. If inappropriate questions are asked, stop the interview immediately.

A couple of months ago, I wrote about someone else’s experience regarding their child’s inappropriate interview with a bishop.  It recounts the altogether appropriate response from an involved and loving father.   HERE is the link.