***Trigger Warning—Sexually Explicit Content***
The tribunal is now past. Sept 9, 2018 will fade into history. But, our cause to protect Mormon children will not.
The council lasted only 1 1/2 hours. NO VERDICT WAS REACHED. How about that. The outcome is be mailed to me “in a few days.”
Once the verdict is announced, I’ll give more details of the proceedings. All in all, I felt very good about the whole thing. The mood of the court members was somber at the start. Animated and lighter at the end. Before hand my odds were 1 in a million at exoneration over excommunication. Afterwards, I’d give it 2 in a million.
Although, I don’t have a recording of the proceedings, I do have the presentations that both my wife and I delivered. 45 minutes was my allotted time. I finished with just a couple of minutes to spare. My speech was delivered with plenty of emotion. Fiery at times. Teary at others.
Sam’s Testimony
Dear President _______,
Thank you for calling this council. It has provided a once in a life time opportunity for each man who is seated around this table. Just by calling the council, regardless of the outcome, you have amped up the awareness of my cause to a new level. You have saved children’s lives with the publicity this court has already produced.
The decision you make tonight will have ramifications that ripple into waves around the world. I have confidence that you, President ______, have the courage and wisdom to make the right decision. I know how difficult that can be. You will be risking a lot. I can testify that following Jesus Christ and doing what is right is a reward in and of itself.
Esteemed members of the council.
God has given you a unique opportunity. One that will likely never come again. This council will be like no other that you ever serve on. It will be historic. I encourage you to actively serve tonight. Speak up for what is in your heart. Stand up for what you know to be right. Be on the virtuous side of history.
I recognize that you don’t have any vote in the outcome. You do have a voice. Use it to support President _______ in making the choice to put this stake on the right side of Mormon history.
242 years ago, 56 men signed the Declaration of Independence. They risked everything to stand up for freedom. They were vindicated and lived with the satisfaction of doing what was right but what was super hard. None of them had to live with the regret of having come down on the wrong side of history.
You face a similar decision today. The world is watching. The Church membership is watching. Not just Salt Lake City. In this room, the stage has been set.
Your decision will be seen for what it really is. Which is more important? Protecting the church leaders or protecting our children. The world sees how Mormons are treating their kids. They are disgusted by it. If you choose to excommunicate, the world will not only see what Mormons do to their own children, but they will also see how we treat those who speak up to protect our little ones.
That is the choice that this council comes down to: Protect the leaders or protect the children.
The Millennial Star, an early Church Publication, contains the following quote. Many have attributed it to Joseph Smith.
“We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them — even if they knew it was wrong. But such obedience as this is worse than folly to us. It is slavery in the extreme. The man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise this idea.”
Tonight, let’s be men of God, let’s claim our rank among intelligent beings, and throw off the bonds of extreme slavery.
What are we doing to our kids that is so wrong?
We have an institutionalized policy mandating bishops and their counselors to take minors behind closed doors all alone, and ask these children sexual questions. Every one of you in this room has been groomed to accept this as a normal thing. IT IS NOT NORMAL. It is not part of the restoration. It is not found in any scripture. Not the bible. Not the Book of Mormon. Not the Doctrine & Covenants.
No other institutional church or youth serving entity in the country does this. Everyone outside of the church recognizes that this is way beyond improper. It’s dangerous, irresponsible and now borders on being illegal.
Last Tuesday, I received this message from a fellow Church member.
“I am taking my recertification training as a physician and one of our training is on mandated reporting of sexual abuse. It got me thinking. I called the sexual abuse reporting hotline.
I asked them, ‘If I was aware that there was a man taking kids behind closed doors and interrogating them about sex – would that be a reportable event?’
The answer: yes!
He goes on:
“In Massachusetts, if you were to call their child abuse hotline and tell them that a man was taking a kid in private and asking them probing sexual questions about their masturbation, pornography and sexual activities – they would start an investigation.
If you told them it was a catholic priest who was doing it – they would be even more interested in investigating it.
If you told them it was a Mormon Bishop who was doing it – they would say it makes no difference.”
What the church subjects our children to is abusive. When more parents start waking up to that fact – people are going to start reporting the local bishops for conducting these interviews and then state authorities will take action.
Many states have mandatory reporting for certain professionals, like teachers, doctors and law enforcement – but there are also 18 states in which every individual is a mandatory reporter. That means that if there is someone who knows and understands that these interview are abusive in one of these states – they are legally obligated to report that these men – these lay bishops – are engaged in these inappropriate and abusive acts and they will be investigated.
Many Mormon Bishops are professionals. Dentists, doctors or attorneys – and they are, themselves subject to professional licensing in order to practice. They are not only held to professional standards of ethical and accountable behavior within the confines of their offices – but if they are reported to engage in inappropriate and abusive acts with a child, they may be subject to investigation by their professional licensing boards.
These good men are being put at risk in their professions by the policies of the church continuing to require them to conduct interviews which are immoral, unethical and abusive.
The writing is on the wall. These practices will not be tolerated by a society that understands the harm and danger in allowing such things to be normalized and accepted. I have worked to educate and inform members and nonmembers alike of the clear and present danger posed by these interviews. And now that people are informed, they are not going to sit back and do nothing.
As said by early Church leaders, Let’s our claim our rank among intelligent beings. Our bishops will soon be in the crosshairs of society’s wisdom to prevent child sex abuse. Excommunicating me sends the message to Salt Lake City that our bishops’ reputations are expendable.
29 questions
What are the dangerous and disgusting questions that are currently being asked by bishops?
I have collected thousands of testimonials from adults of what they were asked as children. From these testimonials, I have culled the questions that I’m about to put into your hands. I’ve heard some members say, “I’ve never been asked those questions.” That’s not the point. That’s like dismissing a rape victim by saying, “I’ve never been raped.”
I’ve heard some bishops say, “I’ve never asked those questions.” Ok. Again, that is dismissing the rape victim with, “Well, I’ve never raped anybody.
Four of my daughters were asked questions from this list. This is what set me off on my path to protect our Mormon children. It was only last summer when my kids told me about this. I was incensed to discover that my kids were abused all alone by these filthy, dirty, pornographic questions.
I have presented these questions to the highest levels of the church. I challenged the apostles to condemn even one of them. With their silence they have condoned every evil question that I’ll now read. (Hand-out the question sheet)
Do you masturbate?
Do you know what a vagina is?
What were you thinking of while you masturbated?
Do you masturbate under or over the panties?
How many fingers do you use?
When was the last time you watched pornography?
What type of pornography do you watch?
Do you masturbate while you watch pornography?
Where and how did your boyfriend touch you?
Where your nipples hard?
Did you get wet?
Where were his fingers?
Where was your underwear?
What color were your panties?
Did you orgasm?
Did you know that once boys reach a certain level of arousal, they have no choice but to keep going, that they can no longer stop their sexual advances?
Have you ever put your penis in another boy’s anus and if so, did you like it?
Describe the sexual positions you engaged?
Did you engage in oral sex?
Did she orgasm?
Was she shaved?
Did you ejaculate?
How many times did he ejaculate?
Where did he ejaculate?
Did you engage in anal sex?
Did the boy ejaculate in your mouth?
Did you put your mouth on her vagina, or use your fingers?
Did he touch your breasts?
Did you touch his penis?
How far did he penetrate you?
To a rape victim:
Did you like it?
What did you do to egg him on?
What were you wearing?
Did you orgasm?
Let’s be men of God. Let’s claim our rank among intelligent beings. Condemn every question on this list. Excommunication WILL send the message that you condone the hideously immoral practice of probing children with pornography like this. I want all the men in this room and the entire world to know that I CONDEMN this in the harshest and angriest tone I can muster. Tonight IS the time for you to follow Christ’s example of angry indignation. Take the whip to the temple and overturn the tables of evil that have infiltrated our church.
Stories of Our Sacred Children
(Hand-out Books)
I’m gifting you something that I consider sacred. These are children’s stories. Accounts of what we have done to our precious little ones. I applaud the courage that it took for adults to relive their childhood trauma by putting it on paper. Most have suffered in silence for years and years. For the majority, their healing began with sharing their story, in a safe place of validation. Thousands upon thousands now rally around them in empathy and compassion.
As you know, I’m still a bishop according to church doctrine. Last month I was joined by 38 other ordained Mormon bishops in apologizing to the victims you hold in your hands. The apology was read by our friend, Bishop Bill Moore of the Sugar Land 1st ward, and broadcast to the world.
Bishops’ Apology
“As Bishops having been ordained by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with humility and boldness, we apologize to you, the thousands of children, now adults, who were harmed by bishop interviews.
We didn’t understand how our words and actions could be dangerous and damaging. We know now. Some of you were groomed for tragic sexual abuse. We apologize. Some were sexually assaulted by their own bishops. How can we apologize for something so unconscionable? We.are.sorry.
We recognize that thousands were mercilessly and most often inadvertently shamed. Shamed into self-loathing as youth. Oh, how we apologize for that. Many were shamed into making very poor life choices. Some were shamed into taking their own lives. To the parents of those whose children died by suicide, we sincerely apologize from the deepest depths of our hearts.
Many of you have suffered for decades with open wounds from what happened to you behind closed doors. We are sorry and offer our sincere apology.
You are worthy. You were always worthy. We see you. We hear you. We give you voice. What happened to you was wrong. So wrong. Hand in hand with you, victims of our dreadful policy, we now march forward to protect the children and youth of today. Our sorrow is not expressed in words alone. Hopefully, you will recognize our contrition by our strong and continued actions.
We love you.”
The Stories
#710 This happened about 2 months ago.
“My 17 year old daughter has been sexually active for a bit. Her mom and I knew about it and mostly talked about safe sex. Daughter felt she needed to repent, went to the bishop—who is a really decent guy—and he pulled out a sheet of paper and said “I’ve been instructed to ask you these questions. As far as I’m concerned, you don’t have to answer them.” He then asked a bunch of explicit questions: who, how often, what happened, details, etc.
“She did not come out uplifted. She felt shamed and shaken. He’s a good guy, she said, but once it went to the questions on the paper, it went downhill fast. She hasn’t attended church for the last few weeks. Thanks Mormon church. You just lost another good one with your abusive policies.”
Guilt is feeling like you have done something bad. Shame? That’s feeling like you are bad. Probing children about sex, all alone, by an untrained man, is heaping shame on our children.
Kip Eliason’s story. As a teenager he took his own life. Shamed over masturbation. Something all boys do and most can’t stop. He didn’t know that. He thought he was alone in his shame induced self-hatred. Reinforced by bishops who were clueless in their good intentions. Clueless about how deadly shame is. Kip is gone. Died by suicide
#169 Samuel Bresee. 4 years ago, at 14 years old. He died by suicide. The evidence he left behind told the story of shaming from bishops interviews. This boy came to dislike these meetings. His father highly encouraged him to continue meeting with the bishop. Today, this father regrets that he ever permitted his now lost son to meet all alone behind closed doors with an untrained man. He will live with that the rest of his life.
You brethren, also, will have to live with whatever decision is made tonight. Be men of God. Stand up for our children so that none are ever shamed into suicide again.
#120 Sandy’s story, not her real name. Many of you in this room know her family.
“When I was about to be baptized, at almost 8 years old, I had already been being molested for several years by another member of the congregation, who happened to be the bishop-at-the-time’s brother. In my baptismal interview, this bishop brought up the law of chastity, and asked if I knew what it meant. I didn’t, really. He asked me if I had ever let anyone touch me under my clothes where a bathing suit would cover. I don’t remember exactly what I said, I just remember the fear I felt in that moment when I realized that *that* is what the law of chastity was talking about. I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to be baptized, and so I wouldn’t be able to be with my family after I died.
“I remember feeling frozen, and being too afraid to talk anymore. He asked me to show him where, and how I had “let” someone touch me, by guiding his hands to do the same. I was too afraid, and ashamed. So instead, he had me sit on his lap, and he hugged me tight. He told me that he needed to determine how *exactly* I had sinned, in order for him to ask God to forgive me, so he told me that he was “feeling prompted” to demonstrate a few things, and I only had to nod “yes” or “no” to let him know if I had done them before, and he told me he was also going to ask me if the things he was going to do felt good, so that he could determine how fervently he needed to pray for me to be forgiven. In that “interview” he sat me on his bishop’s desk in front of him, and had me lie back with my knees bent and legs open. He stimulated me with his fingers over, and then under my underwear, and then digitally penetrated me both vaginally and anally.”
#388 Groomed by bishop interviews that it was ok to go behind a closed door and talk about sex. That set her up to be sexually assaulted by a Sunday School teacher
#456 Bishop sexually assaults another 7 year old
#481 Sex abuse by bishop counselor
#582 Raped by the bishop
#586 Raped by the bishop
#719 1st counselor raping girls in the ward
#758 Bishop groomed and later sexually touched a youth
#779 Bishop had this boy masturbate in the bishop’s office
#783 Sexual abuse by the bishop
#785 Sexual assault by the bishop
#788 Two bishops molesting kids
#799 Sex in the bishop’s office with a 17 year old girl
#805 Sexual abuse by a seminary teacher. Groomed by bishop
The stories are gut-wrenching, tragic and so preventable.
Here are the consequences that are voiced over and over and over:
- Childhood Self-loathing.
- Self-loathing as an adult.
- Normalizing children to sexual questions by adult men.
- Sexual abuse.
- Impaired sexual relations after marriage.
- Years of recovery from childhood shaming. Often lasting decades
- Suicide ideation.
- Attempted suicide.
- Suicide completion.
Last spring, 1,000 of us marched in Salt Lake City, from City Hall to the Church Office Building. We delivered similar books like the ones that you have in your hands. Our hope was that they would land in the apostles’ hands. President ______ confirmed that at least Elder Christofferson did receive the stories, read them and called them tragic.
But that was a private communication, through a third party, behind closed doors. Publicly the apostles have said nothing. These are the victims of a policy that the apostles mandate. These are their victims. Jesus plainly taught how we should act towards the wounded on the side of the road. In his gorgeous parable of the Good Samaritan, the priesthood holders were painted with a very bad light. In their haughty haste they turned their noses up at the sight of the bruised and broken. It was the despised Samaritan who crossed the road. He gently bound up the wounds. He put the thieves’ victim on his own horse and led him to a healing path.
Tonight, my friends, you have an important choice. One outcome will put you on the side of the priests. The other will show you to be Samaritans. I’m referring to this night as the Samaritan’s night. People are gathered in many locations around the country in vigils awaiting your decision. They are gathered as Samaritans, supporting those who have been so dreadfully harmed by what bishops have done. Sometimes the harm was overt and purposeful. Most times the bishop had no idea of the deep wounds he inflicted. By excommunicating me, many victims will feel re-traumatized.
I invite you my friends to join the Samaritans. Cross the road to the Samaritan side. Recognize & validate the survivors. Engage the covenant path. Mourn with those who mourn. Comfort those who need comfort. Minister to the least of these.
Regarding this issue, Jesus weighed in with powerful words. This is the only time that he threatened physical violence.
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Stories of 802 millstones are in your hands. Stand up and be men of God. Risk doing what is right. My conscience is clear. I want yours to be clear, too. Whatever the outcome is tonight, you will have to live with it. History will vindicate or villainize. If the conclusion of this council is to facilitate harming our children, that decision will never be vindicated.
May this day be the day you chose to protect the little ones rather than protecting an institution.
This evening, I’ve delivered a witness to you. I am not alone. My sails are billowing with the teachings and example of Jesus Christ. He is my dear and powerful ally.
May he be yours, too.
Amen
Patty’s Testimony (My wife)
I’m really glad I have the opportunity to be here to discuss the situation at hand with Sam. I think my comments about his journey will address both issues that he is being held accountable for in this hearing.
Since we started dating 40 years ago, Sam has always reached out to the lonely, the shy, the widows, the needy, the overlooked, and the outcast.
As the stake single adult representative he would attend the events to make sure these marginalized members felt seen, heard and cared for. At dances he made sure that every girl was danced with and at firesides he made sure every person in attendance got a handshake and personal acknowledgment. Every assignment he has ever received he has always given 150% which is why he has been given many difficult callings such as high council member over stake activities and the older single adult program, stake young men’s president when we took our youth to Salt Lake City, ward mission leader, when he had to go to the mat with the mission president for taking our missionaries away, Easter Cantata chair, and countless others. In each situation he went the extra mile, but his most challenging and rewarding calling from the Lord was as a Bishop in the Maplewood First Ward where there were numerous needs were from a diverse group of members living within the boundaries. At least 30 children in the primary were being raised in single mother homes. These moms felt that the church leadership continued to focus on “ideal families”. These women would come to Sam in tears feeling that they were second class citizens in the church, who were being forgotten. Instead of being praised for making the best of their situation, they were being told they would never be enough. He brought this issue to the attention of local leaders, who shut him down refusing to acknowledge the needs of these women. He then tried to reach the higher authorities who wouldn’t accept his calls or return any communication from a Bishop concerned for his flock. Finally, after several failed attempts to reach anyone in the priesthood, he reached out to the General Relief Society President who expressed her concerns for single parents as well. She was grateful to Sam and told him to continue the good work of reassuring these women of their worth and value, but not to expect a swift change in current attitude. So that’s just what he did, he spent time with them, listened to them, and even hired many of them to work for his business. Maplewood also had several members who were handicapped, confined to wheel chairs and could not use the bathrooms in the church building. This oversight kept these members from attending church. When Sam found out about this situation he immediately went to the person in charge of church buildings in our area to remedy the issue. He was told that Salt Lake refused to make the changes to install a handicapped bathroom at this time, so my husband took matters into his own hands and informed the authorities that he would be hiring a contractor and paying for the remodeling himself. The very next day, the building representative called and said that the changes would be made. To say the least Sam is a man of action
Several years later, he recognized another group of members in the church who were being alienated. People who had questions, doubts, or concerns about the church and no safe place to discuss them. People who were dismissed by their leaders as unrighteous or unfaithful. People who were hurt and confused, who needed fellowship. After seeing the needs of these people, Sam began to have weekly “talkerias” where members could sit and discuss things they felt were not permitted within church walls. He always encouraged ward and stake leaders to attend these events, but none ever accepted his invitation. Sam was concerned that too many good people were leaving the church and was looking to church leaders to help find a solution. Instead they denied that this was a problem.
During this time, Sam joined several online communities of current and former members who posted about uncomfortable or harmful experiences with church leaders. He was very skeptical that these things could be happening in the church, but felt it was worth exploring. After finding out that his own daughters were asked sexually explicit questions in this very stake, he began his campaign to end this practice. First he went to his bishop who denied that these things were occurring and repeatedly insisted there was nothing that could or should be done, so Sam then went to the Stake President, who also decided this matter wasn’t worthy of further discussion or any kind of action. At this point, he was given no other choice but to reach out to the General Authorities, calling upon them to amend the handbook of instructions on how to interview our youth and children. To keep our children and our leaders safe, but as before when he was bishop, his pleas to help the needy fell on deaf ears.
But again, Sam is a man of action. So he took it into his own hands to bring attention to this problem, since conventional methods of reform were not working. He began voting opposed to the policy of interviewing minors alone about sexual matters, not voting opposed to the church leaders themselves, but to the decision to turn a blind eye to this harmful practice occurring in our church. and again our Stake Leaders didn’t try to really understand his no votes. There only concern was that he conform to church traditions of never voicing a concern. He began to promote his cause with the media in hopes to finally reach the ears of the apostles, who so far had refused to listen. His public criticism to make the LDS church a safer place for our youth does not make him an apostate, but rather a disciple of Christ who wants the best for the Lord’s church.
During the last few years that I’ve been going through this process with Sam, I’ve had a chance to sit back and observe. The one thing I’ve noticed is that this church has changed since I joined 48 years ago as a 15 year old girl. All the teachings I’ve learned as a member seem to be lost and forgotten in the “legalistic” rulings from the prophets. We talk less and less about the savior who is kind and loving and does not inquire about our worthiness because he already knows us to be worthy of His love and His atonement. Since they raised the bar over a decade ago, the church has become more oppressive and punitive with little room for joy and happiness. We are always being told to obey our church leaders or we won’t receive blessings. It’s almost become tyrannical versus edifying. The straight and narrow path is a road that allows for freedom and self agency to choose your passage, but the Church has shrunk that path down to a tightrope in which a small misstep leads to shame, embarrassment, and harsh judgment from the leaders.
Neil L. Andersen stated that “fear and faith cannot coexist in our hearts at the same time”, yet I see so much fear in the leaders and members of this church. Leaders are afraid to be criticized, afraid to make change, afraid to leave the safety of their small circle of brothers. The members are afraid to speak up, afraid to ask questions, afraid of being excommunicated. The apostles seem to treat their leadership position more as the executive of a corporation, than as the shepherd who knows each member of his flock by name. What does it really mean to be special witnesses of Jesus Christ
Luke 15:4 says “What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, doth leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?” Sam has continually gone after those lost sheep, he has done so much good to help people who have been harmed by unrighteous dominion, who feel that any opinion other than the leaders is incorrect and sacrilegious. He has sat with them, talked with them, cried with them, prayed with them, and helped with their healing process when the Church wouldn’t.
The Lord asks us to seek revelation. ALL are called upon, not just the Church leaders. All members of the Church, including Sam, should be free to express and bring forth their spiritual promptings without fear of repercussions. Oftentimes, my children have been my best counselors. They would bring something to my attention that may have been critical. This hurt my pride as a parent, but after honest contemplation, I realized they were right. Truth can come from the greatest of us, the smallest of us, and everyone in between. 1st Nephi 16:2-3 is one of our family favorites. Please take time to read it.
Today, Sam is being judged by a handbook, not by his heart, his righteous desires, or his good fruits. But on the final judgment day I am not worried about Sam standing before the Lord . Whatever decision you make today can and will be overruled by our Savior.
If you choose to excommunicate Sam today without having taken anytime to really understand the suffering of these victims nor have personally witnessed the amount of healing that has occurred since Sam has tried to prevent this from happening to others; I don’t see how that judgment would be pleasing to the Lord . There is no denying that Sam is following the will and example of Jesus Christ. The prophet just asked us to call us by our true name—members of the church of Jesus Christ, so that we maintain that emphasis that it is Jesus Christ we follow—not an organization or a handbook. These things are subject to change at anytime. The Lord’s command to mourn with those that mourn, comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to leave the 90 and 9 to seek after the lost sheep is enduring. It was there long before any handbook and will be there long after this policy is finally updated.
I plead with you today to remember the wise words, “Who am I to judge another, when I walk imperfectly?” As his wife, the one who knows his heart, his intentions, and the fruits of his labors better than anyone in this building, I can tell you with confidence, that this work has been a good one. And it is not the will of the Lord that Sam be stripped of his saving ordinances for seeking to serve the Lord and to follow the example of Jesus Christ.
Tocubit Is Invisible's Cubit 
WOW! These stories. With today being “World Suicide Prevention Day” these stories make me sad and ashamed at the Church. Having lived through those interrogation interviews, I can see how one leaves feeling like a piece of dirt. Please know what a hero and beacon you are to so many. You are SO BRAVE and SO LOVING of all these people. I know, I KNOW, that God is proud of you speaking up for His children. This has to stop. Millions are leaving the church. When will they wake up?
God bless you!
LikeLiked by 4 people
Your covenants were made with God, not the church, and they don’t have the power to release you from them, even if they believe they do. Even if they do excommunicate you, Sam, I believe that the Holy Spirit of Promise will have to ratify the excommunication – to essentially “ratify” the invalidity of the ordinance, just as it has to “ratify” the validity of an ordinance to put it into effect – and since you would be unjustly excommunicated, there’s no way the Holy Spirit of Promise will ratify that. So I’m not worried about your eternal salvation one bit.
Your testimonies were awesome. Thank you for sharing them. You both are incredibly brave to stand up against the church. I pray every day that God will assure you that your eternal salvation is not at stake and that He is pleased with your efforts.
LikeLiked by 3 people
My love and admiration for Patty. That was perfect.
LikeLiked by 7 people
I thought it was too. Thanks for your validation, my friend.
LikeLiked by 2 people
As a new convert I am so very inspired and uplifting y the example of both of you to stand up for Christ. I have had my doubts as a member of such a rigid overbearing church structure. Your example is the true reason I joined to follow Christ’s example. I pray that the church is capable of humility and personal responsibility. My heart goes out in prayer to all the victims to the hard hearted leaders and to sam and his family for being courageous enough to do the right thing . I say this in the name of Jesus Christ amen.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I am moved beyond what any words can express. Thank you both.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Sam, No matter what the decision is from your tribunal, you are a “Lion of God”! and you have all of my love, support and respect!
LikeLiked by 3 people
Beautifully expressed as always. Thank you for sharing. Especially Patty’s testimony. Brilliant. She nailed it.
I will be interested in what was said by those on the HC in the room if/when you are ready to discuss.
I suspect that your fate has been predetermined by forces beyond your SP, but I could be wrong. I would love to see him take no action, which to me would be the correct outcome, but I’m not at all confident in that position.
On the other hand, excommunication may provide the fecal storm of negative publicity required to get those forces in the COB to make some real positive changes. Negative publicity seems to be their primary motivator to doing the right thing.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I’m yet another story. My bishop was a straight-up pedophile. I believe I was only 11 when he called me out of class for a one-on-one. He abused that power to just talk about my fantastic 11 year old body (!) and ogle the whole time. I dismissed him as just another “perv.” After that, he showed up at a swimming activity & was emboldened enough to use me as his confidant to talk about all the other girl’s bodies, but assured me that mine was the best. I blew him off & went swimming and had fun. I’d dealt with other pedophiles/perverts and had antipathy toward authority figures, so I really didn’t give these (mildly) abusive interactions a second thought.
I didn’t have further interactions with the bishop because that was about the time when I decided I’d rather sustain severe beatings than go to church. Go ahead, keep whipping me with the belt – I’m NOT going! I can’t take sole credit for this act of free agency, as I had two older brothers that also stood their ground on not attending church. We were united and we were not going to submit to the fear of physical retaliation anymore! The beatings to go to church ended in about a month’s time, but my father had to continue sitting in an empty pew, knowing that the entire congregation saw his failure to control his kids & that hurt him more than anything else. Oh well!
LikeLiked by 3 people
Both of your statements are beautifully stated. They summarize so well what the real issues & challenges are! These concerns should be the primary focus of every level of leadership in our homes, communities, wards & stakes and in the offices of leadership in the COB in Salt Lake City. May the message be received and acted upon appropriately with actions that will protect the children and the adults as well instead of “shooting the messenger.”
LikeLiked by 3 people
Aren’t we shooting the messenger by urging President Nelson to change a policy when he is receiving revelation from God, not seeking for his own personal desires?
LikeLiked by 1 person
You feel God wants these men to ask your children these perverted and pornographic questions? I fervently believe God needs no man to judge worthiness. The Grace of God is my salvation. These men need to make the right decision. This has to stop!
LikeLiked by 2 people
But is he?
Silence is NOT equivalent to received revelation to keep current policy unchanged.
I’m not aware of any statement from him indicating that he has asked for and/or received revelation on this matter. If he has, he should boldly proclaim it. In the absence of that, his lack of response indicates that he hasn’t inquired and doesn’t intend to.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Do you think God is okay with any of this? That this is what he wants for his beautiful children?
LikeLiked by 2 people
So you think the policy of grooming children for future sexual predators came from God in the first place?
LikeLiked by 2 people
No we are not shooting the messenger. This is standard procedure for how the church recieves “revelation”.
Most major latter day revelations come AFTER social or political pressure are put on the church. Lets look at two major revelations.
1) Ending Polygamy
2) Blacks recieving the priesthood
My understanding of Utah history was that when Utah petitioned the US govt. to be come a new state, they were told that as long as Utah allowed polygamy, it’s application for statehood would be denied.
What amazing timing that it is at this time that “revelation” is received to end polygamy. Polygamy end and Utah becomes a state. Hooray modern revelation. Fast forward to 1978 I belive.
The civil rights movement is gaining momentum. Blacks are not allowed to hold the priesthood. According to lds.org A few black people recieved the priesthood and worked in the temple at the time of Joseph Smith.
The following is copy and paste from lds.org “In 1852, President Brigham Young publicly announced that men of black African descent could no longer be ordained to the priesthood.
The second atrticle of faith says men are punished for their own sins and not for adam’s transgression. Except for priesthood worthiness. If you were black then you couldn’t hold the priesthood due to having the mark of cain or ham.
As Civil rights progress around the US, the church policy to deny blacks the priesthood is increasingly seen as a racist policy. Once again the church is under pressure from outside forces and once again, “modern revelation” is recieved!!
The revelations once again come after pressure. What would male real revelation would be making the changes BEFORE pressure was applied.
One last example. I remember hearing of Emma Smith being tired of cleaning up used tobacco after meetings. Talks to Joseph and once again “revelation” is recieved.
It appears that god and the prophet really listen to each other when the prophet gets really put under pressure about a topic.
You’ll notice no major revelations have been recieved since 1978. They church hasn’t been under that much pressure to change.
We can use the rationalization that god’s ways are not our ways, but he always seems to be behind the curve.
Blacks should have been recieving the priesthood from the start. Joseph should have recieved the word of wisdom before Emma complained. Polygamy should have ended before Utah sent it’s application for statehood.
Perhaps Sam Young is god’s way of puting pressure on the church and once again “modern revelation” will be recived.
The points he and his wife made were beautiful and logical.
When I was a member I could imagine Christ in the church office building. Guiding mission calls and making decisions for the church. When Sam went there on a hunger strike, I would fully expect Christ to come out and talk to him in person if he were there physically. Since he hasn’t returned to earth, his apostles and prophet are his representatives. I was shocked that not a single one came out to even talk with Sam.
It’s further proof to me that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the true church, but a corporate business that runs on public relation recommendations now.
Had Christ been in that bulding, I believe he would have walked out and comforted Sam. Even if the policy Sam is pushing for wasn’t what he wanted, he still would have at least gone out to talk to him.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Katelyn you state “revelation from God”. Revelation as claimed by “that church” ALWAYS comes from the bottom up. R.M. Nelson explained how the Q15 receive revelation. “They talk about the ISSUE. There are differing opinions. They use logical arguments and understandings they each have through very humanistic , scientific processes.They seek to persuade each other. They pray together. Through this process they reach consensus, and it is deemed a revelation. This happens over and over on a regular basis”.(Russell M. Nelson- Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives.) Notice the postion of “They pray together.” in the process. I reiterate “revelation always comes from the bottom up.”
Sam Young received legitimate personal revelation from the Lord w.r.t. his daughters and grandchildren… an ISSUE from the bottom up. It needs to be redressed because the abuse and its process (including the GROOMING) are facilitated by ” that church”… harming both children and bishops. Sam ought not to have been summonsed to a Disciplinary Hearing; rather his accusors stand accused. However, as has been stated what seems negative often has a postitive outcome as it has given Protectlds Children greater impetus.
LikeLiked by 2 people
What a powerful testimony of the work that you have done to protect our children, and of the master that you serve: the teachings and example of Jesus Christ. The Stake President may have gotten his marching orders from Salt Lake City, but the other men on the disciplinary council would have to be heartless to ignore your testimony and example.
What a wonderful woman you have married! Patty’s testimony on your behalf shows your true character, as well as her character in standing by you through these difficult times.
LikeLiked by 6 people
So inspiring, Patty. I wondered where the mama lion was and there she is. Behind every good man…
LikeLiked by 4 people
Exactly what I thought too.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Reblogged this on CFS-ME-River's-Edge and commented:
What else can I say? I love this man. He changed my life.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for being a good man and a voice of reason. The outcome of this court, will not change who you are. I’m proud you have stood up for something important. It makes a difference for those who have already been harmed. It will also make a difference in protecting those who have not been harmed. In my opinion, that is more important than having your name “on record.” Keep fighting the fight, until these horrific stories cease.
LikeLiked by 2 people
This is amazing! Thank you so much for all the thought and prayer you must have put into this! You will make a difference! You have already made a difference in my life and the lives of many others!
LikeLiked by 1 person
So powerful, emotional and perfect. If It were me I would be very afraid to excommunicate. I couldn’t have that on my head. You’re too good. Thank you for risking everything for our children.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Your testimony is great Sam.
The Mormon Church teaches its members to sustain fallible church leaders and not criticize the leadership even if leaders are wrong, yet, should not the leadership sustain fallible members and not criticize them as well – I wonder if it’s only a one way street. Church leaders have taught that all members of the church are disciples, no matter their calling, and all are important from the ward librarian to the apostle. It makes me wonder if the leadership trusts and has confidence in its members. Making honest mistakes and listening to criticism should be a two-way street, especially in a true church where nobody should be above approach or reproach.
LikeLiked by 5 people
Wow, just wow. There are no words to describe how this moved me. So brave of both of you!
LikeLiked by 1 person
If there is ever an eternity beyond our death, it cannot separate the love you and Patty share with each other. If they kick you out, it changes nothing between you and Patty — but what it will do is tarnish ‘the bad name of the church’ further. Both your speeches and pleas were astounding and dignified. Let the machinations of the church come back with good or ill — you have stayed on the side of your God. Bless you both and thank you for your courageous stand.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I loved your words, both of you. It is so hard to stand up for what is right when the church tells you your whole life that they get to decide what is right and wrong. That is not only what makes the worthiness interviews so dangerous, it is also what makes these “courts” so hard. They get to decide not only what you did or didn’t do that was wrong, they get to decide what right and wrong are, and then impose it by “authority”. You framed the issues really well, but they are going to claim it isn’t about any of that, it’s about … whatever they want it to be about. I went through a similar process, and it was hard because I too remain a firm believer in the restoration. There is so little support for the few of us who are excommunicated for “apostasy” and yet who retain a testimony. There is a lot of support for the ex-Mormon community by ex-Mormons and there is a support network in the church for those who stay in the church, but there are very few people I’ve found who understand what it is like to be viewed as apostate by their community and yet who stay and believe, and do not identify as apostate. There is a burden of having that label thrust on you like a weapon, and yet simply trying to bear it along with your testimony, while trying to maintain connections to your lifelong community, who begin actively shunning you. I expect this may be your experience too, and so I just want you to know that there are at least a few of us who can empathize and want to support you. Truth will out. Eventually everyone will acknowledge what most of us already know, and church policy will change. When it does you won’t get any credit, or an apology, but you will know you made a difference, even if they won’t admit it. When you get the letter giving you a verdict, maybe you should consider opening it at a press conference.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I’m so sorry this happened to you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I just read the questions to my NeverMo husband. Not only is he disgusted, he says he wouldn’t even ask them to his child.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I was brought to tears by both testimonies. If these men excommunicate you, they have no heart, no empathy or compassion for victims. If they excommunicate you, they do not have the ability to discern right from wrong. If they excommunicate you, they have zero honor or bravery.
Patty’s words were a wonderful testament to her husband and this cause. Sadly the thought that went threw my mind was, too bad she is woman testifying. We women don’t carry much weight in the LDS church.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Thank you so much for what you are doing and have done for those of us who have been abused in this way. I wish I had been strong enough to protect my children from 1:1 interviews, but having been abused by these questions, I felt it was “normal”, and following “the true church” meant trusting its leaders. Sexually abused individuals being asked what did you do to “egg him on”, as well as many of those other questions are WRONG. My husband and I recently requested excommunication after five years of inactivity that followed the YEARS of trying to fit in. We have never been happier. I applaud your efforts, and encourage you to continue. Thank you!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Correction: not MANY. ALL the questions.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was born and raised LDS. I am still a member and keep my covenants (though after 35 years of complete obedience and faithfulness I couldn’t pass a temple recommend interview now since I haven’t regularly attended my meetings in about a year and I’m not quite sure I can “sustain” our leadership).
I find it interesting that male members of the congregation (ward) are NOT permitted to be alone with children- even in the group setting of teaching a class: a lone female can teach a class of children alone, doors closed. A lone male CANNOT. Policy strictly forbids it. Unless you happen to be in the bishopric/branch presidency…
It’s almost like *they* don’t trust *us* -that we might be vulnerable to the “weaknesses of the flesh” – but *they* will not tolerate the same suspicion from us.
And as far as *liability* goes…we have UNTRAINED/non-professional leadership. It would simply make sense that the church wouldn’t want a situation where a person/child could make allegation when there were no other witnesses available- I mean, how much money have other religions paid out in lawsuits and settlements?
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m crying all over again. Hugs to you and your wife Sam. You are truly Christlike.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for standing strong and being willing to protect others who cannot protect themselves. As a mother, I want to thank you for making a difference and standing up for what’s right and trying to protect my own children, and all other children as well. Bless you both! I know that you are doing what the Savior Jesus Christ would do. I appreciate that you are both people of action.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m angry that you don’t say anything about Mike Norton ( NewNameNoah) who secretly filmed a child being baptized for the dead, in a Temple and he secretly filmed a group of LDS Youth, all on his Youtube page, without their parents consent…if that was an LDS Bishop or member, you’d be in uproar protesting about it, banging your fist on the table…John Dehlin and yourself should admit and acknowledge the bully and perpetrator that Mike Norton is….
On another note, as a member of The LDS Church and a anti/ ex Mormon disliker…I hope you don’t get excommunicated and that our church will change their policies because of your cause and actions
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks for your support. Angry at Mike Norton? I can certainly appreciated that. I have only watched a portion of one of his videos. I’ve never seen the one you are talking about. Nor do I plan to watch his youtube productions. Here’s what i know about Mike. He is an advocate for protecting our children. If a person steps up to protect my kids, I’m not going to quibble about it. Let’s bring safety to our children then take a look if there are other stones to cast. I have many friends who do things that I don’t endorse. Mike is one of those friends.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Haha, yeah because Norton having video of fully clothed kids with their faces blurred out is EXACTLY the same as bishops having sexually explicit interactions with your kid alone behind closed doors. Thanks for the comedy. Keep it coming.
LikeLiked by 2 people
So if a person decides to crusade to right one wrong, he’s obligated to crusade to right every wrong in the world? That’s a pretty hefty demand on the limited time and resources of a mortal human being!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Wonderful and uplifting. I hope you will still have peace when they excommunicate you, because you are speaking the truth. They are not and they cannot. I pray you will be supported through all the trials ahead. Sending lots of love and best wishes for your future. I know you will keep up the good work, regardless of your “status”.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Thank you. You are doing the right thing. I stand with Sam and Patty.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Both your and Patty’s words showed true discipleship to Jesus Christ. I was choked up with emotion as I read them with my wife. Thank you both!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sam thank you for your courage and for bringing this cause to protect LDS children into the light. What you said was beautiful, and the stories you have collected are tragic. I’m so glad you are out there fighting this fight. My husband and I had the privilege of marching in your march for the youth in SLC, and yesterday had the privilege of standing outside the Boise temple with a group of people supporting your cause. This will not end here, and we will be privileged to support your efforts in the future. You are making a difference for those who have been harmed, and preventing furture tragedies.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Patty, loved what you said! What a wonderful man you have there, and obviously you have been the support to Sam through the years so he could reach out and do all those kind things. I pray for both of you. I am thinking of removing my name from LDS inc. It does seem to be changed from what I at least thougth it was earlier in my life. It doesn’t seem to be following what I read about in the scriptures and that Christ taught. I have learned a lot from this movement and am trying to share with others, even if it is a drop at a time. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your courage and actions and following what love told you to do! I like the point that at this time what the church does is really criminal. We need to think about that and as parents, not to enable anyone to shame or hurt our kids. Sending love!
LikeLiked by 2 people
“The world sees how Mormons are treating their kids. They are disgusted by it. If you choose to excommunicate, the world will not only see what Mormons do to their own children, but they will also see how we treat those who speak up to protect our little ones.”
So you gave them the ol’ “get rid of me and you lose” threat, I remember when John Dehlin said something like that. It’s crazy what an ego will do to a person, “I’m too big to excommunicate!” I guess we’ll see.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I like that Sam is aware of his value. If the church excommunicates him, they’ll lose his loyalty and commitment, his tithing and donations, his endless hours of service in church callings and fundraising volunteer activities, and they’ll have to find someone else to clean toilets at the chapel. . .this is only a small part of what he contributes to the church and the membership. They’ll lose members who’ll see the church for what it is and won’t be able stomach how the church has treated Sam and his family – because it could be them and their children next – and they’ll lose the respect of the those in the world who value the innocence of children. Just as John Dehlin has, he’ll work through the church’s betrayal of his lifelong loyalty and love, and offer it to those who value him and treat him with dignity and respect.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Sam, thank you. Thank you for your Christ like example and for bringing to light, a very dark policy within the Mormon church. I have always had a problem with worthiness interviews, became inactive at a very young age, and have since resigned because of them. (But that’s a story for another day.) Christ was very specific when he taught about not hurting God’s children. I pray that no matter the outcome of this “court,” that you know YOU were not the one on trial
LikeLiked by 1 person
My big fat humb hit “post” too soon!
LikeLiked by 2 people
I loved your “too soon” comment. Thanks!
LikeLike
Reblogged this on Mormonish (formerly *What Good Have You Done Today?*) and commented:
Greetings, readers.
Yes – I’ve been quiet for awhile. Mostly dealing with stuff like this. This – what Sam Young is trying to do – this is important. I can’t do much, but I can share. Why? Because I was asked those questions, by good men with good intentions who thought they were doing what they were supposed to be doing because their leaders had told them to do so, had trained them and conditioned them to believe it was required and necessary.
I was lucky – the impact of those questions and the shaming and self-loathing and skewed perceptions they triggered “only” led to my making choices I probably would not have made otherwise, in virtually every moment when I had a major life decision to make, for many many years. Those decisions, framed as they were by inappropriate understanding and perceptions and unhealthy normalizations, led cumulatively and individually to repeated personal tragedy.
Sam is shining a light where there has only ever been darkness up until now. It’s high time and I am grateful. Thank you, Sam.
-MC-
#protectLDSchildren
#NoMoreNastyQuestions
#NotMyChild-NotYourChild
—
LikeLiked by 4 people
Sam, thank you. Thank you for your Christ like example and for bringing to light, a very dark policy within the Mormon church. I have always had a problem with worthiness interviews, became inactive at a very young age, and have since resigned because of them. (But that’s a story for another day.) Christ was very specific when he taught about not harming God’s children. I pray that no matter the outcome of this “court,” that you know, in that moment, YOU were not the one on trial. The other men in the room were the ones on trial. One day, they will have to account for their desicion before God, and I hope they understand the severity of the consequences for their actions. As a mother, teacher, and advocate of children, I applaud you. I know you said September 9th will fade into the distance, but if excommunication is the decided outcome, that date will be etched in history as the day the Mormon church showed the world they care more about the President of their church than God’s most precious gifts, our children. There are many of us who stand with you, and we are ready to take the next step, whatever that may be. God bless you!
LikeLiked by 2 people
My mother and father in law we’re once asked by their bishop, during a temple recommend interview, per the stake president, if they had ever had sex with animals. They let the bishop know right then and there what they thought about that question, but nothing was ever done.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That’s pretty amazing. Even in my deepest TBM days sitting in one of these courts of love I would have struggled to not tell the SP he will have to disfellowship me if he decides to Ex’d Sam..
There are some very relevant points in here
LikeLiked by 3 people
Two Southern Baptists praying for you and your dear wife. We hope for the best in whatever form it arrives.
God Bless You
Mike and Cheryl Kitsch
LikeLiked by 3 people
Thanks my new found friends. Great to meet you Sunday!
LikeLike
This brought tears to my eyes… it is so sincere and Mike and Cheryl treat Sam with the respect he deserves.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You are both incredible. If God truly exists, he would be proud of you for following your heart and trying to treat humankind with love, respect, and support. Those are good things that should be sacred to the church, not condemned. As you have been reminding the victims who have shared their stories, you also are worthy. The opinions and actions of these few men does not determine your worth. ❤
LikeLiked by 2 people
Thank you so much Bother and Sister Young. I am forever grateful for what you have done for me ❤
LikeLiked by 1 person
My question is, what is your suggestion for the policy to change? If the law of chastity must be obeyed to be able to be baptized, go on a mission, go to the temple, etc., how do you suppose they make sure it is being met? It is horrible that there were times when members of a bishopric took advantage of their sacred calling in the instances mentioned and I am grateful that I never lived through such experiences. I just want to understand how you would still make sure all of the commandments are being kept and to what extent without asking about the law of chastity. Would you have multiple members of the bishopric in the room during an interview instead of it being one on one? Would you have a parent come in? …I know if I were ever in the situation where I had to repent for a chastity issue, I wouldn’t want my parents in the room but maybe other people would? I just want to know how you think the policy should change while still making sure there is the level of worthiness required to enter into the sacred covenants we make with Heavenly Father in sacred places.
LikeLiked by 1 person
We start with no one-on-one interviews. No sex questions. How to make sure all the commandments are being kept? That is impossible to assess. In my surveys, at least 50% of kids lie about masturbation. So, the bishop deems them worthy but has actually incentivized half our children to become liars. The solution is to leave that in the hands of God. Simply ask if the child would like to go to the temple and feels good about going. Always be inclusive rather than shaming. Our honest kids get shamed by being ousted from partaking the sacrament, advancing in the priesthood, or going to the temple. No wonder kids lie. They don’t want to be shamed in front of their peers, parents and siblings.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I believe the most courageous thing a member of God’s church could do would be to refrain from taking the sacrament because they knew they were not worthy. Never mind what our peers think, only mind what God thinks. It takes a lot more courage to stand up for what’s right even though it may be hard. As Thomas Monson taught: “May we ever choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong.”
Scrapping the worthiness interviews on account of a few kids lying and making honest kids feel bad is a cowardly thing to do. Scrapping the worthiness interviews because it’s hard to expect people to follow God’s commandments sounds like what Satan wanted in the premortal life. If there is no measure to how we follow God’s commandments and instead we give everyone a free pass regardless if they are worthy or not, resembles Satan’s plan that ‘none should be lost.’ Your sentiment that the bishop is incentivizing youth to become liars is preposterous, the bishop is incentivizing youth to be worthy and stand up right before God. That’s the whole point of the worthiness interviews.
LikeLiked by 1 person
There are no scriptural precedents anywhere for taking children behind closed doors and grilling them will sexual questions. It’s a man-made protocol. Dangerous and damaging. This irresponsible policy can also be unmade by the same men that made it up. God and Christ is nowhere in this. If you want to bring Satan into the mix, his plan was coercion. That’s exactly what we are doing with these masturbation interviews. We prob children. Force many to lie. Publicly shame the truth tellers by withholding ordinance participation where all can see. That is Satan’s plan. And a the church employs Satan’s plan we are doing incalculable damage to our kids.
LikeLike
And…if you think what we are doing to our children is heaven sent, then I’m am the greatest friend to children outside of the church. I’m letting their parents know where they can find the only church that takes children all alone and asks them if they masturbate. If it’s of God, families will be flocking to the Church. Let’s quit hiding our child practices. Let’s be proud of them. Broadcast them to every corner of the planet. Missionaries should lead with this and then the first vision will be even more compelling.
LikeLike
After reading through your blog, I can’t help but remember this quote: “That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.” – Joseph Smith (History of the Church, 3:385)
Joseph Smith truly was a prophet, he summed up your situation perfectly.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have risen up to condemn a policy that facilitates horrendous harm to our children. That is not apostasy. Jesus Christ condemned “harming” our children in the harshest of terms. I’m not the one in apostasy. If I am, I’m in the good company of the Savior.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Uh huh, and William Law also rose up to condemn a policy he thought was horrendous and harmed others, yet an apostate is still an apostate. Oh and speaking of scriptural precedents:
Matthew 6: 16-18
“Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.”
Can you point to me where Jesus talks about contacting the media in order to bring a lot fanfare and attention? I seemed to have missed that part. That chapter seems to talk an awful lot about not doing things for the approval of men.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Nope. Jesus boldly stood in the market square and called the church leaders hypocrites, thieves and whited sepulchers.
LikeLike
I think that is why Sam invited the apostles to come visit with victims so there could be a dialogue about it.
The question: “Are you living the commandments of Jesus Christ?” should suffice for a youth worthiness interview, otherwise it turns into a shaming interrogation instead.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Pretty much what Sam said. Worthiness (whatever that means…aren’t we all ‘worthy’ of God’s love and grace?) is self reported right now anyway, so why the elaborate checklist? Open the temple to anyone that would like to attend. Or in lieu of that (it’s hard for an organization to completely relinquish the control it has over it’s members), make the interview one question (that already exists), “do you consider yourself worthy to enter the temple?” Period.
We’ve conditioned all of our members to put too much control and trust into the hands of lay leaders. We talk to them, even as adults, about things that we really have no business talking to them about. I feel for them. They have an impossible job…herding cats with very little budget and virtually no training. I wouldn’t want to do it.
And also to Sam’s point….I can say that my experience with my bishop when I was 13 resolved me to just lie and tell them what they wanted to hear in the interviews from that time forward. Which didn’t always serve me very well later in life.
LikeLiked by 2 people
You both spike with beauty and power. I wrote this in support of you and what you standing up for.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2018/09/09/bishops-are-judges-of-israel/
LikeLike
Very well done, both of you. Logic would dictate that your SP take no action but logic, common sense, and protecting children are not likely to have played a role Sunday night. Oh, that the SP had the courage of the young man standing in front of the tanks in China’s Tienamen Square in 1989 to stand up to his “file leaders” who ordered him to ex you and say, “no, I will not excommunicate a follower of Christ, a man who put his own livelihood on the line to alert us and church members to the evil within our midst!”
Sam, I’m over in Belgium and Stuart’s not on Facebook but he’s been calling me every day and asking for any FB updates on your situation, anything he can’t see online himself. He went down to the Salt Lake vigil Sunday night. He’s been so upset—more than upset—by the church’s attitude.
Patty, I was baptized in Belgium, in June 1970, two months before my 16th birthday. Sounds like we have a couple things on common in addition to being married to ChemE’s from BYU ‘77 class.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you so much Sam. You are truly a friend of Jesus and of all of our children. Your courage is an inspiration to me!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sam, your wife’s testimony was truly one of the most beautiful things I’ve read in a while. I could only hope that my wife would say similar things of me.
Yours was OK, too.
Whatever the outcome, know you have done good. Your wife is right. Stand tall.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You are correct. Patty’s witness was the show stopper.
LikeLike
Joseph (Smith) learned by hard experience about the temptations of power. A few years later, he reflected on the universal tendency of men to abuse authority: “We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men as soon as they get a little authority as they suppose they will imediatly begin to exercise unritious dominion.”
From; Rough Stone Rollling
LikeLiked by 1 person
Such strong, powerful, moving words. Love to you both. ❤️
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sam, I have followed your story closely but not until now have I heard the gut wrenching stories. It is incomprehensible how anyone can live with themselves knowing that they are enabling this practice.
We all faced a this shaming in one form or another and the results left lasting impacts on our wellbeing and soul.
You and your wife are wonderful human beings. Keep fighting for those that can’t fight for themselves.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Don’t have much to add that hasn’t already been covered besides the fact that I love your wife.
LikeLiked by 1 person