….Do You Masturbate?

What kind of a sick and twisted birthday question is that for a 12 year old kid?

What kind…you ask?  Why it’s the birthday present that is given to our children every year in the only true and living church.  The Mormon church.  My church.  And I’m ashamed of it.

We don’t stop there.  Half birthdays are also celebrated with the very same gift.

Happy birthday!  It’s that wonderful time again.  Time to be isolated in a small room, alone, except for an older man, behind closed doors.

Happy, birthday!  Do you masturbate?

Happy, happy birthday!!  Oh, you don’t know what that means?  Let me explain.

Happy, happy, happy birthday!!!  Do you touch yourself down there?

Happy, happy, happy, happy birthday!  Oh, where’s down there?  I mean down there, right between your legs.

So…You Don’t Believe This is Happening to Our Kids?

The church has changed in many ways since I grew up.  As a youth, never once was I asked about masturbation by a bishop, stake president, or their counselors.  Never once during my 5 years as bishop did I ask any kids or adults if they engaged in masturbation

Two months ago, I asked one of my youngest daughters if this question had ever been asked during her youth interviews.  “All the time.”  Crap!  I had no idea.

Last year, a good friend of the family sat in on her 12 year old daughter’s youth interview.  She had given instructions to the bishop that no interview should be conducted alone with her child.  And…that masturbation was not to be discussed.  The meeting went fine until…”When you view media, do you touch yourself down there?”  Mom terminated the interview.  Her little girl was left confused about the question.

Last year I asked my local ward and stake leaders if they queried kids about masturbation.  I couldn’t get a straight answer.

Real Life Happy-Birthday-Interview Stories

Listen and see if you want your children to have these experiences.  Read and see if you are proud of our LDS masturbation meetings.

Our interview practices do damage to both boys and girls.  I’m not an expert, but after discussing with lot’s of folks, I’d say the harm is actually more severe with our daughters.

Girl:

I was kind of surprised and extremely self conscious.  Masturbation was never really emphasized with girls.  Somehow it never occurred to me that I wasn’t supposed to  do it until this old dude, I barely knew, asked me about it at my birthday interview.  So, of course, I lied.

Girl:

I still remember being as young as 10 and being challenged by a bishop about masturbation. I believe, till this day, that those conversations are borderline sexual assault. What bothers me most is a bishop, unsolicited, would go on to explain masturbation to me.

Boy:

I was asked about it as I graduated from primary.  He asked about girls, etc.  I had no experience and remember being confused at the questions.  After that, I avoided interviews like the plague.

Girl:

I lived in a very conservative Mormon bubble.  When I was 16, my bishop, who just so happened to be my uncle, called me in for an interview.  I was dating a boy from another ward and I think he wanted to make sure we were keeping things rated PG.  He asked me straight out about masturbation.  I was so naive at the time that I thought only boys could masturbate.  I did’t know girls could.  When he questioned me about it, I was mortified!  Did he think I knew about my boyfriend’s private time?  He laughed.  He actually laughed and said I should stop pretending that I hadn’t touched my self “down there.”  Again, I really did not know I could!  I didn’t know how or where or anything about it!  He didn’t believe me, kept pushing for information and started getting graphic!!!  So, I cried.  I think he realized I was being honest and stopped the conversation abruptly.  He didn’t apologize for anything and told me to not go exploring on myself.  I never told my parents this, since my dad was the stake president and was never home.  This man was my uncle and would be over at my house with his family every Sunday for dinner and our families would vacation together.  I refused to accept any more interviews with him.  Crazy stuff, huh.  (Sam:  Nope, it’s not crazy stuff.  It’s sick and twisted stuff.)

My oldest daughter is about to turn 12 and the last thing I want is to have her mind filled with shame and guilt and go through “worthiness” interviews like mine.

Girl:

When I was 12, I was pulled into the Bishop’s office during mutual and asked all kinds of sexual questions, very detailed questions.  He also asked me about all my beehive friends, and if I knew if they were doing anything immoral.  I later found out that there was a rumor that the beehive class was sexually active, and he was going to find out the truth.  I am still traumatized from that experience.  If only I could go back in time.

I should also add that he cried the entire time he was asking me those questions.  Imagine a grown man with tears streaming down his face, asking a 12 year old girl if she’s ever touched a penis.  It’s actually pretty comical thinking about it.  (Sam:  It’s inexcusable, tragic, super dangerous and should never be allowed to happen!!!)

Girl:

I was asked by my stake president when I was in 8th grade and doing baptisms for the dead with my cousins.  It was a small Mormon town.  He was also my 8th grade history & English teacher, and principal of my intermediate school.  I wasn’t sure what he meant, but I knew enough to be mortified.  An older, more worldly cousin warned me to say “no” to anything he asked.  Overall, it was a traumatic experience.  I couldn’t bear to look him in the eye or even answer a question in class after that.

Boy:

Never remember being asked about it.  I was always the one who brought it up.  My Bishop, when I was like 16, said, “Ummmm, I wouldn’t worry about it.  I don’t think it will keep you out of the Celestial Kingdom.  I think it was a great attitude.  Sadly, I didn’t believe him and went on to torture myself with shame.

Girl:

My experience with a bishop wasn’t asking about masturbation, but me confessing on my 16th birthday. I waited knowing I would be called I’m for an interview. I was a scared 16 yr old telling a man about masturbation. He requested I not partake of the sacrament.

We got a new bishop a couple Sundays later and I had to talk about it all again with the new bishop, except for this time around, he called me in one Tuesday night and said he talked to the stake president and he needed to know if when I masturbated, I stuck my fingers inside. I was so embarrassed and ashamed of myself. During my transition I tried to think of anything that happened to me personally, and it came to me… that was none of his business. What does it matter to him? As a 16 yr old, I was trying to be obedient. (Sam: This is so horrid. Why would any parent risk such abusive treatment of their precious child? I am so sorry.)

Girl:

I was DEFINITELY asked about masturbation.  This is a major trauma from my adolescent age.  I felt guilty ALL…THE…TIME.  Like there was something really wrong with me cause I couldn’t stop the urges.  So frustrating to even think about now.  Just ridiculous.

Girl:

Masturbation shame is a reason behind suicides in the church.  Mark my words.  Nobody talks about it, but it’s true.

Girl:

Sadly, so many of us have a story to tell.  I’ve wondered many times what my teens and 20s would have been like without the heavy burden of guilt and shame I carried thanks to several bishops who may as well have had revolving doors to their offices.  Shame on them for their lack of spiritual sensitivity and discernment.  I developed an eating disorder in my teens as a way of coping with the pent-up sexual energy in my body.  The bingeing/purging ended when my eyes were open to the TRUTH at age thirty.  I sure wish someone would have tried to enlighten me sooner.  It would have made all the difference for me.  Thank you, Sam, for your boldness and courage in bringing attention to these matters.  (Sam:  Thank you my friend for sharing your story.  I was never asked about masturbation as a kid.  You should never have been asked either.  So sorry about that.)

Boy:

My stake president asked me, “Are you viewing anything in connection with masturbation?  I said, “Well, we have cable television.”  Then he told me, “If you do not overcome this, the day will come when you will not be worth a damn…to anyone.”  I already felt embarrassment and shame over this.  I  kind of suppressed the horrible feelings from his words.  But, this anger is now finally coming out years later.  For a certain kind of personality type, a statement like that could drive someone to suicide.

Girl:

I enjoyed “self love” all throughout my childhood without knowing what I was doing exactly.  As a pre-teen, I started to worry that something was wrong with me because in seminary and Sunday School I would hear references to “touching yourself.”  But, it was only directed towards the boys, not the girls.  I thought maybe something was wrong with my anatomy!  They wouldn’t even acknowledge that it was a pleasure girls could feel, all be it wrong and everything.

Then, a few years later in young women’s, a leader addressed the issue and told us that it was a sin you could not repent of unless you confessed to your bishop.  I learned that same in seminary.  I felt so horrible and for about a year I tried to stop.  I finally got the courage to call my bishop.  As a 16 year old girl, I drove myself to meet with an older man and talk about my sexuality.  So messed up.  He handled it well, but the whole situation was terrible.  I left feeling like I was the only girl to have ever confessed such a terrible sin.  Still to this day, when I see him I feel so much shame and awkwardness.

Of course, I couldn’t keep from doing the deed forever.  So, when I dreaded visiting him again, I talked to my mom.  She told me I didn’t need to confess next time and it was OK.  WHY DID SHE WAIT?!!!  She could have saved me from so much guilt and shame..Let alone putting myself in a very dangerous situation.

Now as an adult I’m so grateful I masturbated.  It means I knew what an orgasm felt like before getting married.  I could expect to feel pleasure from my husband and let him know what I liked!  I told all my married friends to figure it out before they got married.  Women should be proud of their pleasure and embrace every chance they can get to feel an orgasm.  It doesn’t always come easy for us!

When I think back to that experience in high school, I’m angry at a lot of people.  Especially my mom.  How could she have not been more concerned when she found out that I had met in secret with an older man?!  And discussed these things?  It’s so backwards.  (Sam:  I cried when at your question, Why did she wait?)

Mom About Her Son:

My Older son always talks about how much he hated those question.  I know a lot of kids feel really shamed by them.  I know a lot of adult members have stilted sex lives because sexual pleasure is made to sound so shameful.  It’s a travesty.

Girl:

I was DEFINITELY asked.  This is a major part of trauma from my adolescent age.  I felt guilty ALL…THE…TIME.  Like there was something really wrong with me cause I could stop the urges.  So frustrating to even think about now.  Just ridiculous.

Girl:

When I was in my teens, I actually did masturbate.  I felt like I was a freak of nature and felt so guilty.  So, I went in to “confess.”  I was told by my bishop, a PHD educated man, that if I didn’t stop, I’d turn into a lesbian.  Keep in mind, this was in the 70’s when it was totally NOT ok to be LGBTQ!  The fear and shame affected my hetero sex life and frankly still does.  This from a church led by direct revelation?  Of course, I was told to read “The Miracle of Forgiveness.”

Girl:

I think this is an important conversation that the Church needs to be having.  When I was in Beehives (1980-ish), the YW saw the video “Morality for Youth.”  Then we were all individually interviewed about “necking, petting and masturbation.”  Having figured masturbation out a few years earlier, I was shocked to learn that I was sinning.  I came clean with the bishop, who may have been more surprised than I was.  He gave me a humiliating scolding that I never forgot.  I struggle to be good, but would inevitably slip up.  However, after that first mortifying confession, I never admitted to it again.  I just figured I would cut out the middle man and go straight to God with any necessary repentance.  I felt sometimes guilty for not fessing up, which contributed to an overall feeling of unworthiness that followed me for a long, long time.  Learning that my children were getting drilled about masturbation in their interviews is one of the several things that finally pushed me away from the Church.

Girl:

I had a bishop at Ricks College make me sit next to him during an interview as he told me about HIS masturbation problem.  Masturbation was not the reason I was there.  I was there for getting caught with alcohol.  Maybe he was being nice and trying to relate with me.

Other Posts on This Appalling Practice

Behind Closed Doors–Don’t Let It Happen.  Click HERE.

I’m Going to Leave Before They Get Their Hands on My Baby Daughter.  Click HERE.

Recently, I was contacted by a struggling member of the church.  Here, I’ll call him Ron. He asked if we could get together for a one-on-one Talkeria.  Over the past year, Ron had been going through a painful and lonely faith transition…and wanted to talk about it.  I still view it as a great tragedy and travesty that there is no safe space inside the church for discussion.  We met for 3 hours.

This good brother has a young toddler.  During our chat, he made this startling statement.  “I’m going to leave the church before they get their hands on my baby daughter.”

I had never heard such a grim and jarring statement describing someone’s reason for getting out.

Mormon Stories #732, Scott Duke

Today, I heard something that made me think of my new friend, Ron.  Over the past couple of days, on the drive to and from work, I listened to a Mormon Stories Podcast.  In it, Scott Duke shares his fascinating and heartrending faith journey.  Heartbreaking on several fronts.

My attention was riveted until Scott shared a grim and jarring statement made by his Stake President.  He was being interviewed for his calling as a missionary.  Of course, masturbation was discussed.   Remember, what follows was said by a man who is viewed as having great authority—the Stake President.  The target of his comment was a young, inexperienced, and normal young man.

The Stake President’s words caught me totally off guard.  “If you don’t overcome this, the day will come when you are not worth a damn to anyone.”

To My Six Children

This Stake President’s chastisement is totally out of bounds.  It has the potential to do great damage.  If this were ever said to a loved one of mine, my retort would be:  “It’s YOU, Mr. Church Leader, who is not worth a damn to me.  Stay away from my child.”

We have a dreadful ritual lurking behind the closed doors in our church buildings.  An untrained man, in a position of authority, takes an innocent child behind those closed doors, alone, without a parent present, without parental permission, and asks the child about his or her masturbatory predilections.  This is a gross and dangerous practice.

Life may be like a box of chocolates.  But, some candies are corrupt and reprehensible. You never know what you are going to get when the door swings shut, isolating your child, alone, with an adult male who may say something idiotic like, “the day will come when you are not worth a damn to anyone.”

Why Are We Waiting?

As the only true church, we should be on the cutting edge of what is good, right and safe.

Fortunately, we jettisoned polygamy when society demanded it.  Mercifully, polyandry never caught on.  Fortuitously, we granted black people the priesthood 10 years after civil rights laws were passed.

Our society has moved beyond grown men asking inappropriate questions to children in private.  I do not know of another church that engages in this unfortunate practice.  I’m ashamed that my church still does.

Why are we waiting for this alarming custom to go away on its own?  It won’t.  I encourage my adult kids, and every other thinking and concerned adult, to end it RIGHT NOW….for your children’s sake.  Especially, for my grandchildren’s sake.

My friend, Ron, has now left the church.  He was not willing to wait for the changes.  His child was too precious to him.

What To Do

1. Don’t let your child be interviewed without your permission.
2. Be present, in the closed door room, during the interview.
3. Inform your bishop of your conditions for youth interviews.  You are to be present. No discussion about masturbation or other sexual matters.  That is to be between you and your child ONLY.
4. Inform your child that they are to let you know whenever any church leader requests a meeting with them.
5. If inappropriate questions are asked, stop the interview immediately.

A couple of months ago, I wrote about someone else’s experience regarding their child’s inappropriate interview with a bishop.  It recounts the altogether appropriate response from an involved and loving father.   HERE is the link.