in Uncategorized 876 Words

Appeal Response–Zombies in our Midst

first-presidency-2018

Around 2pm today,  I received a call from the stake executive secretary.  He informed me that the stake president would like to come by and visit right away.   My home was a-swirl in wedding preparations.  So, we decided to meet in the church at 4:15.

I arrived at 4:00.  No one there.  I sat on the couch facing the outside door where the stake president makes his entrances.

At 4:15, the stake president and my former bishop made their timely appearance.  I stood.  We shook hands.  The stake president gave me a hug.  About one minute of pleasantries. Then, as we stood in the hallway, the following interchange ensued .

SP:  The First Presidency has reviewed and responded to your appeal.

SAM:  Cool.

SP:  They have affirmed the decision of the council.

SAM:  Okay.

SP:  I wanted to pass that on to you and also extend warm regards.  I urge you to qualify to return in the prescribed way.  I wanted to deliver that message on their behalf.

SAM:  So, it’s not in writing or email?

SP:  I’ve received a letter.

SAM:  Do I get a letter?

SP:  No.

SAM:  I don’t get a letter on this?

SP:  No, its’ just a verbal one.

SAM:  Okay.  I’ve got a couple of questions on this.  First, before the council, I signed an agreement not to record.  The letter said that everyone on the council was going to sign that agreement and that no one was to record it in any form.  But, I didn’t see anybody else sign it.  You had me sign it here in the hall.  Can I get a copy of everybody else’s signatures who signed the “no record agreement?”

SP:  I’ll check on that and see.

SAM:  Is that not your decision to make?

SP:  I’m not prepared to answer your questions right now.

SAM:  Okay.

SP:  We’ve gone through the council and I’m here to deliver that message.

(He slowly starts to back towards the outside door.)

SAM:  The second thing I’d like to ask is this.  Nobody was supposed to record anything.  Yet, Joey was there to record it in writing.  Since I was forbidden to record it, I’d like to get a copy of the record that you all made.  Can I get a copy that?

SP:  I don’t know.  Those are confidential on our part.

SAM:  But, I heard everything that went on in that council.  I was told not to record and I was told that nobody else was going to record it.  But you guys did record it.

SP:  Sam, I’m just here to deliver this message.

SAM:  Well, since you mentioned my preparing to return, I’ve got one other question.

SP:  Uh huh.

(SP turns and increases his pace towards the front door.  I follow.)

SAM:  What do I need to do in order to come back?

SP:  It’s written in the letter that you received from me.

SAM:  It just said that I needed to join the covenant path and repent.  But I……(Cut off by the SP.)

(They pass through the 1st outside door.  I follow.)

SP:  It’s written in the letter that you received.  Thank you and have a great…..(Cut off by Sam.)

SAM:  So why did they not give this to me in writing?  Part of my reasoning for appeal was to let you off the hook for making this decision.  I wanted it to come from the First Presidency.  So why wouldn’t they put it in writing?

(We walk out the 2nd outside door into the cool seasonal weather.)

SP:  Sam, all those questions you are asking…I’m not prepared to give any answers other than the message I’m delivering.

(We walk down the short walkway to the parking lot)

SAM:  So, how do I get answers to those questions?  Do we meet again and you answer the questions I just mentioned?

SP:  NO.  WE ARE NOT GOING TO MEET ANYMORE.

(I stop at the edge of the parking lot.  They continue the short distance to their cars)

SAM: We’re not going to meet?  So basically I can’t get any answers to the questions I just asked?

(Car doors open)

SP:  Have a wonderful day.  Thank you.

(I call out as they get in their cars.)

SAM:  Okay….I just want to tell you that this is one weird, weird thing. 

(They close their doors and drive away.  I stand there dumbfounded at the oddity of what just transpired.)

I believe that my stake president is a good man.  He’s certainly successful in worldy terms.  But, I now have a clear picture that the LDS church is capable of turning a good man into a mindless zombie.  A will-less robot following instructions from his Mormon masters.

No compassion.  No friendship.  No outreach.  Distant and detached.

Anxious to flee the presence of the evil excommunicated apostate.

Nothing Christ-like whatsoever.

I wish he and the bishop well.  They will be better off without the thorn of Sam in their sides.  I hope that when doubts arise in their dark-night-of-the-soul that they’ll consider this excommunicated thorn as a safe place to talk.

A very weird encounter indeed.

Of course, this WILL NOT deter my determination to protect the kids.

Other Resources

Excommunication Appeal

Exommunication Edict

Excommunication Summons

152 thoughts on “Appeal Response–Zombies in our Midst”

  1. “I wanted to pass that on to you and also extend warm regards.”

    Wow, some way to extend warm regards. Actions speak louder than the stake president’s empty words.

    It will be interesting to see if, in the next few months or years, they dramatically change policies.

    Liked by 6 people

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  2. Wowwww. I mean I saw all of this when I was on my way out of the Church. If you like some time I’ll tell you the one other place I’ve felt this level of dead-ness. Remember, “by their fruits ye shall know them.”

    Liked by 5 people

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  6. It is a culture of conformity and unquestioned allegiance to the Church and it’s leaders in Salt Lake City. It clearly demonstrates the paranoia of church leaders regarding analytical thinking, and questioning of their leaders by the members.

    “I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” – Elie Wiesel

    Liked by 8 people

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  7. They’re circling the wagons, clearly. Sam. 😪 And this whole “ordeal” is all your fault (according to them).

    I’m so disturbed by this whole thing, frankly. You wanted to stay. You’re speaking- out for the voiceless, and hoping for the hopeless. And I’m just dumbfounded.

    Liked by 4 people

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  10. Jesus said it best as recorded in Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat (the nickname of the church), and swallow a camel (the abuse of children).

    Liked by 8 people

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  11. >I believe that my stake president is a good man

    You are too kind. He may have good intentions but he is not a good person Sam. He is – if one believes in those gods- inspired by an adversary. Even to mormon standards he now espouses the philosophy of Satan- one which refuses to baptise a child for the behaviour of another person, denying them membership in their kingdom and denying them the presence of god himself- the holy ghost, something apparently essential for youth especially. That is the church of Satan. Thankfully I do’t buy this nonsense, but fact is you are too kind. As well as a good man

    Liked by 6 people

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  12. Behold!
    Let it be finished now.
    Give them nothing more of yourself, especially your time which they have wasted continually.
    Rejoice.
    You are free!
    Enjoy your life. I wish you joy.

    Liked by 8 people

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  13. Your stake president is a coward. I would never ever associate with a hypocrite like that again. Walk away, head held high. What a lowlife. No personal integrity, no man-to-man authenticity. What a joke. He sucks, and I truly hope he sees this comment. Hey Stake pres: YOU SUCK. The hurt caused to innocent children and youth is now your burden to bear.

    Liked by 5 people

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  18. I think you are too kind in regards to your SP. He is not a good man. You said it, no compassion, no outreach, nothing Christ-like whatsoever.

    And that’s the key, he is not Christ-like, and yet he portrays himself to be a leader in a church that claims to follow Christ. He is a hypocrite. Your bishop is no better. Your bishop could have spoken out, showed compassion, friendship, outreach, and he chose to remain silent. He is as much a hypocrite as the SP.

    These men are no better than the cowards in SLC. From the top all the way to the local leadership, you will find hypocrites in the LDS church. The top leaders are hypocrites and cowards. They do not know Christ, nor do they even know how to act like him. They are devoid of compassion or love in any way. The only thing they know how to do is put on a good show like the pharisees in Matthew 23.

    Local leaders emulate the hypocrisy they see in the top leaders at the LDS church. While one may find a good man here and there, they will be increasingly rare.

    I hope the SP reads this message. I hope he knows I’m speaking right to him when I say that he is a hypocrite and a coward devoid of any Christ-like compassion or love. He is a faker with pretend priesthood and pretend power. I hope he wakes up some day and realizes the awful truth.

    Liked by 5 people

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  19. Sam,

    The only response I can give is the one given by Denver Snuffer when he was ex’ed for writing a book. You were both men in good standing with the church who were promoting a stance that was not in harmony with the current doctrine or policies of the church. I consider you both righteous men, though that is not my call to make. When the church sees fit to remove the righteous from their midst they are only dooming themselves to destruction. When they use their worldly authority and God’s name to vainly persecute the righteous they are exercising unrighteous dominion and the heavens are grieved. One can be reasonably certain that there is an amen pronounced upon the priesthood of such men. I doubt there is room in heaven for such sycophants, liars, and cowards.

    Remember, they crucified Jesus for speaking out. According to Joseph Smith one cannot inherit exhalation without suffering in like manner, to some smaller extent, the things that the Lord suffered during his ministry. The ones who falsely claim to be children of God and inheritors of God’s kingdom without this suffering are fooling themselves and will be sorely disappointed at the last day.

    The peace of our Lord be upon you Brother.

    Liked by 4 people

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  20. I wish I could say I was surprised by this account, but I’m not. Your SP and Bishop are cowards, following the example of the cowards higher up the food chain than themselves, who are also following the cowards who came before them. Stay strong, Sam.

    Liked by 4 people

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  21. Sorry Sam. They will abandon you in your darkest hour. The friendships I formed in church are all completely gone now. Not even a hello in the store. The key to understanding mysteries is unbelief, believe it or not. I’ve never wandered off into criticism of the church in your posts, and support the children. But, this is the tactic of a cult behavior. I think you know the serious cultural and gross implications of one “shaking the dust off their feet” and that philosophy is the root of real immorality. It divides… I believed the church was true for most of my life. I lost my faith and was afraid, but in the end I found I’d been doing this alone my entire life anyway and I had no worries.
    No worries mate

    Liked by 5 people

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      1. The unity is based on one thing—membership. Scientology is similar. No longer believe and everything is panic. You can however, work your way back to their friendship and good if you abstain from true character by assimilation.

        Liked by 3 people

  22. Your pride has been your downfall Sam. Instead of being even the slightest bit introspective and reflective you instead insist you have done nothing wrong and those who oppose you are spineless cowards all while unironically using lions as a mascot to protect children.If you think anything the Church did was un Christ like you would of hated the actual Christ.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=lions+eating+cubs&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS819US819&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMvcnunc_eAhXs6IMKHd2VCYEQ_AUIEygB&biw=1920&bih=938

    Liked by 2 people

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    1. The Mormon Church is the only denomination that does not have a homeless shelter, a soup kitchen and does not minister to the poor or the sick outside of their own faithful. The LDS church is the only religious organization that spends less money on humanitarian works and good works designed for the entire community rather than their own members.

      The Mormon Church excommunicated a young man for standing up to the Nazi’s and denied him everything right before he was killed for trying to protect “the least of these my brethren” and yet you claim that Sam doesn’t behave like Christ. Sure after the Nazi’s lost WWII they re-instated him but he died believing that the church had forsaken him.

      How you treat “the least of these” is precisely how you treat Christ. The Mormon Church demands 10% of everything and all of a persons talents/abilities/etc be given only to the church. Christ did not, he only demanded that you love one another. Love is not conditional upon “checking boxes”. It is supposed to be there regardless.

      By their works you shall know them… By the works of this particular denomination, it is more interested in appearances and superficial numbers than people and suffering. The Mormon Church has been buying up land, building great and spacious buildings and increasing their own stock portfolio while actual members and the rest of the communities around them are suffering but still it continues to demand money even from those who can’t afford it. Those people are then promised blessings that will never come and when they do not receive these imaginary blessings they are told that their faith isn’t strong enough. The ones who really need an understanding of PRIDE are Mormons. I doubt very seriously that many of the members or leadership would be able to recognize Christ. Checking boxes and pretending to be humble while judging and hurting others over superficial things are more important than actually caring for anyone who may or may not be a member. That “ethic” is what the church is known for and it’s what non-members and ex-members complain about most. Sam is Christ-like and the fact that you can’t see that speaks volumes for your ability to actually know or understand anything that Christ actually taught.

      Liked by 5 people

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      1. Superbly written, Lisa!

        Please share your voice (and your heart) more and more.

        Speaking truth is always a good investment of time and energy.

        Liked by 3 people

      2. “The Mormon Church is the only denomination that does not have a homeless shelter, a soup kitchen and does not minister to the poor or the sick outside of their own faithful. The LDS church is the only religious organization that spends less money on humanitarian works and good works designed for the entire community rather than their own members.”

        Factually incorrect.
        https://www.lds.org/topics/humanitarian-service?lang=eng&old=true
        https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/humanitarian-services

        “The Mormon Church excommunicated a young man for standing up to the Nazi’s”

        Helmuth Hübener branch president excommunicated him. Saints living under oppressive governments have a tricky balancing act to perform. Saints living in China must obey the law and subject themselves to the communist party while trying to live their religion. To depict such a tragic and complex situation as Helmuth’s as “the mean old SLC hated anti-Nazi’s!” is to spit on his grave.

        ” The Mormon Church demands 10% of everything and all of a persons talents/abilities/etc be given only to the church. Christ did not, he only demanded that you love one another.”

        Christ commanded his followers to give all they had not a mere 10%. In the book of Acts members who lied about how much they gave were struck dead. In addition, Christ was always telling people to repent and keep the commandments. In fact, he said if you love him you must keep his commandments. Yes, he loved the adulteress but he told her to sin no more.

        “The Mormon Church has been buying up land, building great and spacious buildings and increasing their own stock portfolio while actual members and the rest of the communities around them are suffering but still it continues to demand money even from those who can’t afford it.”

        What an absurd statement. The scriptures never condemn large buildings but it was a symbol of how wicked the world is. It seems basic metaphorical language is lost on you.

        “Those people are then promised blessings that will never come ”

        I have seen them in my own life and in the lives of those around me.

        “The ones who really need an understanding of PRIDE are Mormons.”

        Sam is angry the Church is not run according to his dictates and that the leadership doesn’t listen to him. How dare the Church not be the Church of Sam Young!

        “I doubt very seriously that many of the members or leadership would be able to recognize Christ.”

        I gurantee the exMormon crowd, the progressive crowd, and the Sam Young sympathizers would spit at Christ since he would demand they keep his commandments. He would ask them to give all they have, to be chaste, to pray daily, to read their scriptures, and would say if you forsake him for anything (even family) you are not worthy of him.

        “Sam is Christ-like and the fact that you can’t see that speaks volumes for your ability to actually know or understand anything that Christ actually taught.”

        Name one time Sam has publicly advocated for keeping the law of chastity or paying your tithing. How many times has Sam given glory to himself rather than God?

        Liked by 1 person

      3. I was Catholic , my ex baptist husband and i did humanitarian work. my current lds husband works with homeless and those who transition from prison to provide food clothes, housing. I have done my fair share of infant blankets and clothes abroad, my daughter did relief work in bolivia. Where do you get your info, sorry about Sam young but I left other churches for lack of Christ in there attitude.

        Liked by 1 person

    3. This comment makes me sad. Sam is not prideful. Anyone can see that. He was only trying to protect children and give voice to hurting, wounded people. We should all be able to speak up without being criticized. We should all be able to be heard. I think Christ saw everyone and heard them, even their thoughts. I feel sorry for the Church leadership. I think it must be hard to be worshipped as almost God, have people almost fall at your feet, stand when you enter a room, think that you are their means of getting to heaven etc., I think it would be hard to not become prideful. I think it would be hard to have so much money, power, and control, hard to not abuse it. Hard to listen to people who had inspiration and light. Because, they are the only ones who can have that. When I read the Book of Mormon, the church fits the description of the great and spacious building. It is sad. We are all connected, we are all loved, we are all worthy of God’s help in our lives. We all need to just listen and love one another. I pray for peace and understanding.

      Liked by 5 people

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      2. “When I read the Book of Mormon, the church fits the description of the great and spacious building.”

        Thanks for proving you have no idea what you are talking about.

        Liked by 1 person

      1. Apples to Oranges. The Catholic Church engaged in widespread rape of children and the leaders as high as the Pope knew they were raping children yet simply moved them around instead of calling the police. Being asked awkward questions is not even close to child rape. Go read the Pennsylvania Grand Jury report on child abuse in the Catholic Church and tell me the LDS Church is guilty of even 1% of that.

        http://media-downloads.pacourts.us/InterimRedactedReportandResponses.pdf?cb=42148

        Like

      2. RockwellDidNothingWrong,

        No, it’s about keeping those bishops who are predators (wolfs in sheep’s clothing) away from children, hence the reason for a policy prohibiting no one-on-one interviews with children. There are predators among church leadership in the Mormon Church just as well as in the Catholic Church or any church. Did you read any of the stories submitted to Sam? Can you tell who is a predator or not without 20/20 hindsight.

        Liked by 2 people

    6. Thank you for posting, RockwellDidSomethingWrongMurderingHumanBeingsBecauseBrighamYoungDidNotLikeThemIsAboutAsWrongAsYouCanGet,

      Sam’s blog is richer when we don’t agree with each other.

      However, if you are intimating violence, not cool.

      Not cool at all.

      Call names all you like. Sam supports free speech.

      Just take note that EVERYTHING WE WRITE says more about THE WRITER than about anything else.

      Yours truly included.

      Liked by 2 people

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      1. “However, if you are intimating violence, not cool.”

        When did I do that?

        “Sam supports free speech.”

        Relevant how?

        “Just take note that EVERYTHING WE WRITE says more about THE WRITER than about anything else.”

        Great so Sams distortion of the events and his calling of leaders who don’t agree with as “zombies” and “cowards” reflects his maturity and unprideful handling of his apostasy.

        Like

    7. RDNW do you actually understand English? “you would OF hated the actual…”. Sam’s “pride” is his supporters, who have children and grandchildren, who have been and are still being subjected to abuse in the church. Many of those who were abused have been enabled to come forward and share their horrific stories, and find compassion. Have you any idea of Sam’s journey since just March 2018? You ought to do yourself a favour and read about the progress he has made, on Protectlds Children. Furthermore if you consider Sam’s Excommunication a punishment for disobedience, you are indeed mistaken. He could quite easily have resigned, which would have directed the blame to the leaders for failing the Lord God’s admonition in Isaiah, for members and prophets to show compassion above all else.

      Liked by 3 people

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  23. Sam, I have no words to express how I feel. Anger is at the top of the list. These men are more than cowards. They’ve been brainwashed. And I suspect they are filled with fear, and they are thinking “the same thing can happen to me if I don’t obey.” Obey to the letter, the instructions of those above me.” It’s very sick, and it’s very frightening. You are obviously a threat or you wouldn’t be treated this way. I’m old, and I’ve read enough church history, and more and more things are being revealed, to know that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and no doubt others at the “top” were ruthless when it came to having their way and being in control. The Mormon church is a cult, plain and simple. And it becomes more dangerous with each passing day.

    Liked by 4 people

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      1. cc,

        I appreciate your comment … triggering this:

        The whole concept that we need someone to JUDGE us is …. utter nonsense.

        The purpose of The Human Condition is for us to incarnate into these meatsuits-of-limitation and to have rich and compelling experiences as we do our best to navigate for another lifetime of thrills, spills and high adventure on My Planet Earth.

        We learn by making mistakes. Feeling pain and disappointment. Then making a better decision next time.

        After many lifetimes of making mistakes, learning from our personal experiences of pain and pleasure, we eventually STOP MAKING MISTAKES after we’ve done it all and been everywhere.

        Someone ahead of us on the trail would be Jesus Christ and other enlightened masters who have graced My Planet Earth with their presence and compassionate influence on humanity.

        The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ actually got a few basic principles right … Hit the Nail on the Head. Here is maybe the most profound truth of Mormonism:

        “As Man is, God once was; as God is, Man may become.”

        The only problem is the grossly distorted transmogrification of what God is … as taught by Joseph’s Myth.

        We have the option as immortal Spirit Beings to incarnate in the flesh (as many times as we want to) for learning and growing experiences, but the flesh and bone BODY is not who we are … whatsoever. It’s like a temporary costume we wear for our part in the play. The fact that Joseph was a sex addict whose idea of heaven was an Eternal Sex Orgy … kinda messed the Restored Gospel up bigtime.

        I have 5th Generation Mormon DNA in my cells. I ain’t gonna throw out the babies with the bathwater. Not everything I learned at Church was pure BS. It was more like soup with pieces of shit floating in the mix. If you strain out the shit, maybe the soup is salvageable?

        Soup, anyone?

        … maybe starting fresh with a clean soup pot and untainted ingredients is a better idea …

        Liked by 2 people

  24. I loved the comment about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. I’m glad the first prsidency of [The President of the Corporation] of the Church of [….has left the building…..] of Latter-Day Satanists finally responded. They’ve signed their own fate, Sam. Thank you for letting them. But sadly I’m shocked that your SP & bishop would behave like mindless cult members. I really thought members at the local level wouldn’t have been corrupted.
    Don’t stop fighting. You are making a difference. YOU are a Godly man. Those cowards don’t know Him.

    Liked by 4 people

    Reply

    2. ” Latter-Day Satanists finally responded”

      Love the wordplay … but to be fair, the Members are collateral, correlated damage inflicted by the DarkHearts-In-Charge.

      Let’s dig deep and come up with more clever wordplay that paints true colors and rinses away the thin whitewash … getting thinner by the day.

      Liked by 2 people

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  25. I haven’t spoken up here before but I wanted to tell you that you are a very brave person and someone who I admire. I am so sorry that this has happened to you and I am sorry that you are being forced to see that Christ-like is not what the church is about. I wish you well in your future endeavors and I am truly sorry for what has happened.

    Liked by 3 people

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    2. Lisa, your response is Christ-like. There is nothing wrong in opposing those things which we find to be wrong in the church. Looks like Sam is another Alma to me. The church leaders at the top have disgraced themselves.

      Liked by 4 people

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      1. I left the church when I turned 18 because I felt like Christ was not a part of the church and I didn’t it to be a good person. I discovered my ethics and moral code were higher than what I witnessed. I really did believe in the 11th article of faith and it’s probably the one thing that I took with me when I left. When I see people mistreating others I can’t help but speak up, when I was younger that was treated as a weakness by the people around me because the people I chose to speak up for weren’t the people the church expected me to speak up for. Now I realize that it’s a strength and I’ve used that power ever since. I was happy to see Sam speaking up for those who couldn’t and I was hopeful that maybe the church had changed. What they have done and continued to do since Sam spoke up is disgraceful and speaks confirms that those in power have not changed and I have lost hope that they will ever change. I resigned this year after not setting foot in the church for 20 years. To me Sam is an example of Christ, if he were Buddhist I’d say he was well on his way to Enlightenment. What is happening to him and how he is being treated is a disgrace and I wanted people to know that the world is watching. My kids and my husband are nevermo’s and they knew about Sam without me having said anything (we’re not even in the US). They thought he would help show the leadership the error of their ways, and they are now disgusted with the church.

        Liked by 2 people

  26. Sam, it’s clearly obvious that you never wanted fellowship back into the church through your appeal. Your entire reason was for the appeal was to add fuel to your hatred and distatste for the church. You know what you need for coming back into the church. That’s not what it was about. I think you are put off by the fact that your excommunication was done by your local clergy and not from the top. It bothers you that your excommunication wasn’t by the prophet at all. It clearly shows your disrespect of your local clergy and their ability to excommunicated you. Your prideful manner causes you to believe your status is above that of your stake presidency and should of been handled by someone above their Calibur.

    Liked by 2 people

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      1. Sam, get over it. Your local leaders, by themselves, excommunicated you. The Brethren stand by the decision your local clergy made.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. It’s complete conjecture to think they are not. I have received confirmation from a well connected friend in my stake that the SP was directed to hold a court by a GA. He didn’t know if they dictated the verdict.

        Liked by 2 people

      6. Sam, a well connected friend? And you admit that you aren’t sure if the verdict was from the top?.
        You know what you have to do to return to the church. Stop undermining the church leaders. It’s obvious you have no desire to return by calling them “cowards”. The Brethren saw this in advance. They saw you were baiting them. It didn’t work. Get over it.

        Liked by 2 people

      8. I totally agree with Sam on that.

        Local leaders are engulfed … hook, line & sinker … in an ingenious, virtually irreversible PsyOps entrapment. Their very identities and self-image/concept are hopelessly entangled and knotted-up in the tortuous tentacles of the Mind Control Machine founded by Joseph the PolyFucking Liar.

        For Sam’s SP to do anything other than follow orders from On High would be to trash and burn-to-the ground what his SP has invested his ENTIRE LIFE in building and achieving … with high hopes for a personal future of Fame and Glory and maybe even RockStardom … followed by after-death, eternal CK polyfucking alongside Joseph Himself. For most, that is a Too-Tall-Order to give up and let go of.

        Robert, with all due respect, and pleading guilty in advance to ad hominem attack, you are an idiot. Not to be all negative, you are a very intelligent idiot … intelligent enough to consistently deflect all incoming assaults of logic, reason and preponderance of evidence.

        Your psyche is a Wholly-Owned-Subsidiary of The Brethren. There is an Ethernet cable coming out of the back of your skull. The other end is plugged into a Correlated Router with a direct fiber-optic link to the COB basement data center Deseret Mind Control Propaganda Server Farm.

        You are a Tool of The Brethren … playing your COB programming algorithms with robust reliability.

        Back on point, do you persist in seriously believe that Sam’s excommunication was a local decision … even after Sam gives you evidence of the diametric opposite?

        No problem for Robert. You simply IGNORE all evidence and preponderance of witness testimony that does not support your foregone CCC conclusions … Cast in Correlated Concrete. Or there is the always-handy option of calling the messenger a liar with an agenda.

        Robert, unplug that goddamned Ethernet cable to SLC. You are a better man than that! There is a real, authentic, genuine, talented, gifted, independent, awesome Human Being trapped inside there trying to escape. You have been duped into enthusiastically officiating as YOUR OWN JAILER.

        Just stop.

        Liked by 2 people

    2. My husband has served at the stake level and as a bishop and been to many church courts. He himself said how Sam’s court wasn’t run according to the handbook. He said “no way” did this come from the local leaders, but from the higher ups. Obviously people understand things differently, but I totally see that Sam was trying to lift the burden from his local leaders. He did his part. If they are fine with it, then great. This life is really about the many different ways we can learn to love and share that with others. Sam has done this. He has tried to be considerate. At this point I get why he’s a bit disgruntled with the system of high priests who lift themselves up and away from the real people who have been hurt by them and their system. We just all need to look at things and ask, is this loving?

      When the L.D.S. leadership didn’t respond to Sam’s book of sacred stories shared, was that loving? When the L.D.S. church lawyers fight against people who have been abused by the leaders and make them sign non disclosure agreements so they are silenced, or make it too hard for them to even go to court, is that loving? Is it loving to not do everything possible to protect the sweet, innocent children?

      I see that Sam did what was in his power to show love for the downtrodden. That’s all he was guilty of. Let us choose peace and love the best we can.

      Liked by 6 people

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    4. It’s interesting to me, on the outside looking in that you call Sam prideful. That you believe that he is being disrespectful for daring to speak truth to power. From the outside looking in what I see is the leaderships inability to take responsibility for their actions. A group of people so drunk on their own power that they are failing at basic humanity.

      It is interesting to me that a Church that claims to be the fastest growing faith is the only faith that doesn’t offer anything back to the entire community. That it doesn’t have a homeless shelter, a food bank, a soup kitchen that is shared with everyone regardless of belief. That a faith that claims to believe and worship Christ has conveniently forgotten the downtrodden whom Christ specifically told people to care for. That members of said church are so concerned with the superficial that they ignore everything else and when they are called to account by someone who has noticed they silence them by “excommunicating” them.

      This is the same church who excommunicated a boy for standing up to the Nazi’s and then waited till the Nazi’s lost to reinstate him. This church betrayed him and excommunicated him and let him die because he dared say that what the Nazi’s were doing was morally wrong. A church that would do that does not stand with Christ. No matter how often members of said Church say “The church is true, people are people” it is the culture that the church itself creates that causes people to behave in this manner and until that culture is confronted and changed this same behavior will continue. A church that won’t care for anyone who isn’t a member of their church unless they attach strings isn’t a church that Christ stands with. Christ said love one another. He didn’t say “Love one another, unless they happen to have a different faith than you or don’t dress modestly enough for you, or don’t pay their tithing, or don’t follow the word of wisdom”.

      He did however say “Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me”

      Liked by 3 people

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  27. Sam,

    No surprise. The Brethren get a Grade A from me for consistency.

    They might confuse people if they acted like marginally decent human beings once in a while.

    I have no idea how many SPs have GA aspirations. Probably lots of ’em. All you would have to do to kill your chance at rockstardom would be to display even a faint glimmer of personal integrity … to disqualify yourself from any hope of promotion.

    I am still laughing about why in hell did they let Eric Hawkins talk on the record to a smart journalist?

    THAT’S entertainment.

    Liked by 2 people

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    1. PCH,

      Your “ivory tower” comment made me think of the irony … how over the years The Brethren have evolved to embody and personify many of the evil memes of Mormon scriptures. Almost like they have become their own worst enemy … and the worst enemy of the members of their Church.

      Here are a few examples:

      > In the Parable of the Good Sam-aritan (I just now figure THAT out? What took me so long!) what role do The Brethren play with impeccable accuracy? Hard to do a better rendition of Pharisee and Sadducee. Acadummy awards all around with a Lifetime Achievement Award to Elder Hoax.

      > The Great and Spacious Building … The Brethren spared no expense when they outgrew the Tabernacle.

      > Rameumptom … center of focus within the Great and Spacious Building … the fount and dispensary of Jesus Christ’s Spokesmodels’ litany of Human Rights Violations. You can subscribe to a lifetime of having your Human Rights violated for only 10% plus gratuity not included.

      Here is a great definition from wikipedia:

      According to the Book of Mormon, a Rameumptom (/ˌræmiˈʌmptəm/) is a high tower or stand from which the Zoramites gave a rote prayer. … In Mormon culture, the term “Rameumptom” has a metaphoric meaning, signifying self aggrandizement or hubris.

      Hubris is a good word for Our Lovely Brethren:

      hu·bris
      /ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/
      noun
      excessive pride or self-confidence.
      synonyms: arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, hauteur, pride, self-importance, egotism, pomposity, superciliousness, superiority; informalbig-headedness, cockiness
      “the hubris among economists was shaken”
      (in Greek tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis.

      (in Utah tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of Jesus Christ’s subversive Golden Rule, leading to The Brethren cluelessly officiating on the World Stage in the role of providing their own self-destructive nemesis services.

      nem·e·sis
      /ˈneməsəs/
      noun
      noun: nemesis; plural noun: nemeses
      the inescapable agent of someone’s or something’s downfall.
      “the balance beam was the team’s nemesis, as two gymnasts fell from the apparatus”
      synonyms: archrival, adversary, foe, opponent, arch enemy
      “they were beaten in the final by their nemesis”
      a long-standing rival; an archenemy.
      “will Harry Potter finally defeat his nemesis, Voldemort?”
      a downfall caused by an inescapable agent.
      “one risks nemesis by uttering such words”
      synonyms: downfall, undoing, ruin, ruination, destruction, Waterloo
      “this could be the bank’s nemesis”
      retributive justice.
      plural noun: Nemesis
      “nemesis is notoriously slow”
      synonyms: retribution, vengeance, punishment, just deserts; fate, destiny
      “the nemesis that his crime deserved”

      (in Utah nemesis) “The Church needs no nemesis with the likes of President ‘don’t offend Jesus the Snowflake’ Nelson and President Dallin ‘the Church will apologize over my dead body’ Oaks at the helm.”

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  29. The LDS church also seems to encourage some downright crazy beliefs. Just look at that comment by the Rockwell character.

    It’s sad to me that people in the LDS church can be so totally blind. Being in a leadership position in the LDS church and trying my best to live in harmony with Christ’s teachings is what led me straight out of the LDS church. Christ and the LDS church teach opposing ideas and beliefs.

    It’s actually slightly scary if you think about that Rockwell character’s comment, and what is implied by the name with which he chose to identify himself. I think I’d contact the police and have them track that guy down.

    Liked by 2 people

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    1. Lyin’ for the Lord is still the state pastime in Utah … also the highest ranking state for Affinity Fraud and marketing scams in the country.

      Fortunately, killin’ for the Lord has tapered way down in the Land of Ziontology … but only if you rule out the killin’ for the Lord that is STILL HAPPENING whereby the murderers stay out of jail with plausible deniability when the people who die … murder themselves.

      Those Tricky Brethren!

      They are VERY tricky … just like the Founding Trickster we know and love, and who loved so many of us.

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  30. Sam, it is highly apparent to me that the boys in SLC were coordinating the excommunication with your Stake President. I was an active member for 44 to 45 years until my eyes were opened. I only attend the LDS Church now as I desire to. I was also a temple worker for7 years. There is much good about the rank and file LDS members but not some of its current leadership who have caused the church to apostatize. Yes, I see the LDS church as in a state of apostasy.

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  31. Wow, that was a really weird experience for sure! Sadly, “In their chicken hearted, opulent, arrogance, they continue to harm our children!!!” The children are at the heart of it, not Sam. They are what matters, not S.P. , G.A., or any high priest no matter who they be. I think those with eyes to see, who are praying to know the truth of things, will see Sam does not care about himself. He just cares about those little ones, because he is a dad and a grandpa. He has love in his heart. Let’s look at who is showing love and acceptance, and who is not protecting children from further abuse.

    We support you Sam. Our eyes have been opened watching this all play out. It is hard for people who have been in the church their whole lives, and who identify with it to change how they think about things. It takes time. The question is, is the L.D.S. church doing all it can to protect the children? Does it care more about people than money or reputation? It doesn’t seem so at this point.

    People are waking up. We are starting to realize things. Real eyes, realize, real lies. I’m sure you have seen that. All we have to do is pay attention, open our eyes, think and pray to know the truth. Bless you Sam and your beautiful wife and family. Let us all just love.

    Liked by 6 people

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    1. “Real eyes, realize, real lies.”

      If I wore a hat, I would doff it … to a poet.

      If you can write like that, Lee, you should spend more time writing. Truly.

      The pen is mightier than the temple recommend.

      Thank you.

      Liked by 3 people

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      1. Hi Gary, real eyes, realize, real lies, did not come from me. I have read it and can’t remember where. So I don’t have the author. It’s a good one though!

        Liked by 1 person

  32. And yet, heartbreaking to a degree. I would love to see this as a video short. You just standing there, while they drive away…full of questions, when there won’t be answers. Almost feels like the end of Castaway, with Tom Hank’s character standing there in the middle of a crossroads. Bless you Sam and all that you have done.

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  33. You’re not saying… that His only true church has been hijacked by… PHARISEES?
    Matt 7: 3,6-12,15-24
    Matt 15: 11-14
    Matt 23: 10-29
    Dogs turning to their vomit, motes vs beams, swine turning to rend you for pearls of truth, vipers, whited sepulchers, ravening Leaders in fine wool suits…?

    Liars and Tithers and False Bearers! OH, MY!

    Liked by 3 people

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    1. Admittedly, there are many good people within the LDS church. Much good can be one within it. However, when the top has gone rotten, is it still Christ’s church, and if not, why? It is also apparent to me that these leaders are not receiving revelations from God and few have since Joseph Smith’s death. If they were receiving revelations, I do not think we’d see moronic behavior from the top which we are now seeing, This is not the church I joined in 1973, I am sad to say.

      Liked by 1 person

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      1. Probably safe to say that you aren’t the same person today as you were in 1973. The church hasn’t changed, perhaps it’s you who has changed.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. … nor is it the Church you THOUGHT you joined in 1973.

        I joined a bit younger than you, cc.

        The sperm that triggered my b.i.c conception was a b.i.c. High Priest (ordained by SWK), and the egg was a b.i.c. eternal doormat sociopath bio-mother-in-name-only.

        Actually … not true. Historical, biographical, circumstantial, now-it-all-makes-sense, forensic investigation suggests that the b.i.c. sperm that spawned me in my mother’s womb belonged to my Uncle-of-record, not my Father-of-record. If that is what happened, I like it. My father-of-record was a lifelong, rainbow-chasing idiot … while my UncleDad was a way better, far more successful, human being who took care of his children (while working too much). Sad that he died in a homebuilt airplane crash 40 years ago. This reconstruction of my conception explains why my UncleDad gifted me (and none of my 5 brothers) with flying lessons right after I came home as a returned missionary. He was there watching me from the airfield when I soloed for the first time. I believe he really, truly loved me, and was very proud of me, but was unable to ever show it to me personally … (other than gifting me with flying lessons … duh!) … because he wanted to keep some things secret that would hurt others if revealed. It was the compassionate thing to do, all things considered. All of the particpants in my conception are now dead, otherwise I would not write this on a public-access blog. I do not fault my mother or my uncle for what happened when circumstances virtually guaranteed a bump in the night.

        Kinda mind-bending to consider that my cousins-of-record may actually be my half-siblings … and my aunt-of-record might be my step-mom.

        If any of my half-siblings read this, they will be sore amazed, and/or must needs dismiss it as BS. After all, it is most likely BS. As we know from our Mormon Cult-ure correlated training, the most obvious and likely explanation for human behavior is quite consistently … anti-Mormon lies.

        In other words, Occam’s Razor is really Stan’s Razor by the wrong name.

        Occam’s razor is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Robert,

        “The church hasn’t changed, perhaps it’s you who has changed.”

        Thank you for REMOVING ALL DOUBT for those readers who were on the fence.

        Liked by 2 people

  34. Sam, my dear friend. Paper trail. I would write a letter and demand to see the letter from the First Presidency. All you have is the word of one man, who may or may not be telling the truth. Back it up with legal recourse. You deserve to have closure here. That’s NOT too much to ask.

    Liked by 3 people

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    1. Whispers is echoing my reaction to your SP Excommunication Appeal Verdict delivery story.

      Hindsight is 20/20 of course. My fantasy has Sam saying this to his SP:

      “Sorry, President Friend, but I do not believe you. I think you are lying to me. I believe that the letter you received was actually the official reinstatement of my Full Church Membership over the signatures of Presidents Nelson, Oaks and Eyring. Unless you show me the letter and allow me to copy it before a Notary Public, I will simply not believe you.

      “I will see you in Sacrament Meeting on Sunday, where I will be taking the sacrament. And here is my tithing check. The fine print on the back of the check says this: “Upon deposit of this tithing check, the payee warrants and affirms that Sam Young is reinstated to Full Faith and Fellowship as a Member in Good Standing of the Church formerly known as Mormon and LDS, and whose world-famous choir is now called the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square, and whose namesake diety is easily offended, like unto a Snowflake.”

      On second thought, that’s a lot of words to fit on the back of a check.

      Never mind. I went off the rails …. again.

      Liked by 2 people

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  35. When one is excommunicated, you are cut off from fellowship and communcationwith the body oof the church. That’s what they have done my my dear friend.
    I send you my prayers and my eternal love. I pray that you will be protected and guided to know what you need to do in all your efforts and your loving desires with your familyGid bless you till we meet again…

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  36. Sam, the more I read your encounter the more my heart filled up for compassion for you. Just know that you are loved and appreciated and are not alone. I’m sorry this has happened and you are feeling exactly what the leaders do to anyone that questions even from victims and survivors of abuse. It was hard as a returned missionary turning my father into the police along with my father’s known st the time other victims and see the church leadership embrace the perp entirely while shaming is victims. It was confusing and devastating. It took me a while to leave the church on my own. I was devastated at what I not only witnessed but learned of the true origins of the church. I know the pain of leaving behind a life that has been so close to your heart. I thank God that He personally made known His love and reality for me in a very personal way that saved my life and opened up a different version of the real love of Hod for me and each of us. In the hard times that still hit my life I lean on those incredible experiences to keep me going. Life is a trip. We are so loved and worthy to God. I know it hurts now. I’m sorry. You are a brave and beautiful soul. The lives you have given a voice to will literally change their own worlds and the world we all share together. Thank you for your courage and putting yourself out there. Much love always. Feel free to reach out anytime. God bless you Sam Young

    Liked by 3 people

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    1. Thank you my friend for your heartfelt concern. My experience is not anywhere near the league of those who have suffered physical sexual abuse or psychological sexual abuse. I have read thousands of stories. I heard yours. My heart continually goes out to you and them. Love and my very best wishes, Sam

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  37. “No compassion. No friendship. No outreach. Distant and detached.”

    You’ve spent the last two years shitting on Christ’s Church. The only weird thing here is your narcissistic expectation that these men, whom you’ve hounded and dogged and resisted for over a year now, treat you with any kind of deference.

    May God have mercy on your soul.

    Liked by 1 person

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      1. God has mercy on ALL souls.

        It’s The Brethren who are selective about who gets mercy … and who gets excommunicated.

        May God have mercy on the souls of The Brethren. (… that’s redundant … see first sentence )

        Liked by 2 people

    3. Shakespeare, first of all any argument is diminished when you resort to vulgarities. Tsk tsk.
      Second, Sam has at no point deficated on church property in an act of vandalism. Let’s be clear.
      The expectation of coutersy is a privilege of a civilized society. Since you consider it narcissistic to expect such deference, we will necessarily conclude that you are not civilized.

      Christ’s church does not abuse children. Christ’s church does not protect sexual predators. Christ’s church teaches His doctrine without adding or taking away (such as restricting children of gay parents from baptism, or requiring an oath of loyalty to the president before baptism). Christ’s church is called in His name (and not in the name of a corporate president, check your facts). Christ’s church does not turn wine into water (as the LDS do with their sacrament). Christ’s church have miracles, signs, and wonders that follow them (any General Conference citation of a recent miracle will do….crickets).

      Christ’s church is made up of the humble followers of Christ. Of which Sam is most surely a part.
      Christ’s church is not a building, nor is it the membership roll of any organized religion.

      As for “hounding” and “dogging”, dogs return to their vomit and return to the master that beats them. But since your negative dog reference was related to not giving up; persistence is actually a virtue. The parable of the persistent widow being one of the first examples that comes to mind.

      Since you left Sam with a blessing (thank you for that, BTW) I’ll leave one of my own: May your eyes be opened.

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    4. Tdptm,

      Oooops! Looks like your Shit Detector is broken. Hope it’s still under warranty.

      If you perceive that what Sam has been doing is defecating on Christ’s Church, I do not wanna see what you eat for dinner.

      Speaking of food, here is food for thought 4U …

      If it had been Jesus Himself in Sam’s shoes … instead of Sam … what would Jesus have done differently?

      I could make a long list, but you can do it just as well as I could. Draw a line down the middle of a blank sheet of paper. At the top of the left side, write “WHAT SAM DID”. Then at the top of the right side of the piece of paper, write “WHAT JESUS WOULD HAVE DONE”.

      Make a list … Check it twice … Gonna find out if Sam’s naughty or nice.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

      1. Earlier I posted a script for Jesus administering a worthiness interview to Billy … during which Jesus attempts to discover if Billy masturbates or not.

        Here is the rest of the story … Billy thanks Jesus for the worthiness interview … then comes skipping back to rejoin his young playmates … singing the new Primary ♪♫ Song Jesus just taught him.

        ♪♫ Jesus Wants Me For A Sunbeam ♫
        ♫♪ To Shine For Him Each Day ♪♪
        ♫♪ But If Instead … I Should Please Me ♪♂♀♫
        ♪♫ To Hell … I’ll Go …To Stay ♫♪

        Liked by 1 person

  38. Wow, it is hard to believe some of the comments made here. People who say Sam has fought against Christ’s church. If it is Christ’s church, if Christ is in charge, children would be made safe and protected. Sam has only fought for what Christ would stand for. If someone, church leader or not, does not support the protection of children, what does that say of them? Sam could care less if he is treated with deference by the leaders of the church. All he cares about is the children.

    Sam, love your positivity, sense of humor, and love.

    Liked by 3 people

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  39. Pingback: Former Latter-day Saint bishop who opposed 'sexually explicit interviews' loses excommunication appeal - R- Pakistan Daily Roznama

  40. Surprised by the decision? Yet your post is filled with apostate comments. Ironic. Go away Sam until you are ready to show one ounce of faith.

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    2. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You will forgive me if I feel that the only proof you are capable of providing is the same shallow judgemental childishness that I saw while growing up. The Mormon church is full of shallowness and it’s hollow. There is no such thing as unconditional love or caring for those who have no voice. The Mormon church silences all critics, and their own works speak for themselves. A religious organization that chooses to build a Shopping Mall when many are left in poverty and homeless. A religious organization that buys up lands, farms and stock investments while spending a pittance on charity… I remember being told “Faith without Works is dead” but there was another part to that as well, you will know them by their works. The Mormon church cares only for money. The sick and the poor are expected to pay even when they can’t afford it to live and are made to feel as if God has forsaken them for every single bad thing that happens but the church keeps sucking them dry. The church cares not for the homeless, for the sick, for the weak. Oh sure, they “take care” of their own while charging them with “service”. You shouldn’t have to “work” for help when that extra 10% a month would keep you out of poverty. But here you are spouting the lines.

      Question for you: If the church weren’t true would you want to know?

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  41. It blows me away that people like my cut off father in law can get away with sexually abusing young girls and the church puts them through a “class” which fixes them and they are able to continue their membership with hardly any repurcussions.
    Yet…. standing up for children to not be asked inappropriate questions, to not be a mindless zombie, they excommunicate you.
    I stand by you Young, when I was 13 I was asked by my bishop if I ever allowed any boys to finger me. I didn’t know what that was. It’s disturbing, yet unsurprising that this is even an issue with the church, another reason of very many as to why I am no longer a member.

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  42. Definition of apostasy which is a reason for church discipline:
    “Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders.”

    “I have little respect for the 1st Presidency and apostles. They are cowards.”
    “the vaunted prophets show how spineless they are”
    “In their chicken-hearted, opulent, arrogance ”

    Can you honestly say that saying such things along with your clearly open, deliberate and public actions do not qualify for the conditions of apostasy?

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    1. I am no longer a member. When I was, I was not opposing the church or it’s leaders. I was speaking out about a policy. One policy. Not doctrine. Not theology. Not against the church. For the church. For making it better. If it’s forbidden to oppose a policy without being kicked out, something is rotten. Especially if that policy is harming our kids.

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      1. But it’s the church leaders who make the policies, so if you openly oppose the policy you are openly opposing them and the church. I understand your reasons for doing this but it’s the way you have gone about doing it that has caused this excommunication to happen.

        Like

      2. Your are correct. I basically tried every way I could think of. Started by talking to bishop and stake president. Dead end after 1 1/2 years. Wrote letters to apostles. Dead end. Next was petition. Then collecting stories.
        Then the march to deliver the stories. Then the hunger strike to raise awareness. The excommunication actually helped raise awareness big time. As a result, many parents and bishops both have been alerted to the dangers of the Mormon interview policy. Many have taken action on their own. I really wish that the apostles had made the change during my firs 2 years of encouraging change. But, I was not willing to wait as children continue to be in harms way.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. It’s the manner in which you opposed it. One can disagree with policy without fear of excommunication. However, one cannot speak and act in hateful speech against the church and get others to do so slso. That’s why you were excommunicated.

        Like

      4. Sam was excommunicated only because the leadership “seek to hide their counsel” using lawyers. That wasn’t working and the church leadership are not willing to alter their child interview policy so they want Sam to go away. This is an important thing which Sam was doing on behalf of the church member’s many children who are harmed by the current interview policy. If no one is listening at the top and are not responding, it seems you have to get louder to have them take notice and make changes. One man can make a difference. What Sam did is not cause for excommunication. These men at the top, albeit supposedly good men (only God knows that), are listening and taking counsel from lawyers rather than doing what is right. I do not believe that Jesus would cast Sam out for wanting to do the right thing. It is not cause for excommunication to go against church leaders on a policy. The sin is now upon the heads of the leadership of the church, unfortunately for them. This is my opinion.

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Robert,

        Once again, you simply delete facts in evidence that do not support your pet opinion.

        Sam started out registering his concerns with his local Priesthood leaders. You conveniently delete that fact from your consciousness … or consciously misrepresent to deceive others.

        The Brethren simply ignore feedback they do not like. What Sam did was refuse to be ignored.

        Why?

        Because the CHILDREN, Robert.

        That’s why Sam refused to be ignored.

        Sam was very successful in refusing to be ignored. The World now knows his name and what he stands for.

        The World also knows what The Brethren stand for.

        The fact that YOU continue to stand with The Brethren is a decision you will eventually, deeply regret.

        Liked by 3 people

      6. As this “story” has developed it is as though it unfolds on two different levels. 1. Sam, a member of the church seeking to redress serious problems within his personal experience as a patriarch in his home. 2.The leaders of the church, who despite claims to represent policies of the church, nevertheless have a modus operandi, which has a hidden agenda, and always had…it has never changed but for the fact that the members, until recently were unaware of this agenda. Sam has a testimony of the Lord…he did have some misgivings about the application of a policy. I joined the church when I was 15…later on I thought I must have been extremely naive not to have realised that Jesus Christ is, according to SLC, the “Father” of this world. When did that become doctrine? We were instructed to “seek out our dead” but then Genealogy in the LDS church was becoming big business …there is a Ceo and 3 Business Partners. Evidence of baptisms of Jesus Christ in Mormon Temples was facilitated by FamilySearch. How was that possible? The modus operandi kicked in and the whistle-blower who exposed this , was excommunicated…as was Sam Young, who in all innocence, exposed the ugly consequences of those bishopric interviews. The Hidden Agenda : The Second Anointing…One’s Calling and Election made sure, reserved for the “elite”. We left the church. Four of our 8 children are still members and all our grandchildren. My heart aches for them as they believe that continuing as a family in the hereafter is dependent on “covenants”, which are now “nil.” This is not so..continuing as a family is dependent on acknowledging the Lord God and showing compassion to our neighbours. The two levels, 1 and 2, do not converge.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Cecilchamp,
        There is a very big misconception in all of this. Sam wasnt kicked out of the church for wanting to do the right thing. I dont know how many times this needs to be brought up but even in his excommunication letter it states specifically that he wasnt being excommunicated for wanting to do whats right with the youth. Its the manner in which he went about doing it in a harmful manner against church leadership that led to his excommunication. The leadership do not hide behind lawyers. Sam mistakingly thought that his aggrandizement would lead to the top leadership bowing down to him. The leadership are too busy dealing with building up the kingdom rather than deal toe to toe with an apostate reveler who hates the church. Sam is in the same boat ad Kate Kelly, John Dehlin, etc. The leadership do not meet with such as there is nothing to be gained, just basically a waste of time.
        Opposition to policy or doctrine can be from one end to the other. Personally, I have my own ideas about heaven and hell that do not align with the church. I feel I am right. However, I do know that if I do want change there is a proper way to address that. What I shouldnt do is going around spouting off how church leadership isnt valid, that they are cowards, etc. One thing, and its important, is that Sam was voicing opposition to leadership before this issue itself. Sam doesnt have a very good track record to sustaining church leadership.

        Like

      8. “Sam doesn’t have a very good track record to sustaining church leadership.” That’s not a track record that I’m concerned about. I’m striving for a track record of sustaining the teachings and example of Jesus Christ. His teachings NEVER mention sustaining the leadership if they are in the wrong. His track record was in publicly calling out the church leaders in harsh terms. Hypocrites, liars, thieves and whited sepulchers. He was executed for his track record. We honor Him for His noble sacrifice. I’ll settle for excommunication for my track record. But, I’m not looking for any honor. It’s our children that I pay honor to with my sacrifice.

        BTW, it simply appears that we have a fundamental disagreement on one-on-one interviews with sexually explicit questions. You think it’s a good and godly practice. I view it as inappropriate, dangerous and having done widespread damage. It has no precedent anywhere in scripture nor in the first hundred years of the church. It looks like we are both settled on our opinions.

        My intent is to spread the word to as many non-members as possible. As they become informed, they’ll make their own decisions as to whether or not it’s a good or bad practice. If it’s good and inspired by God, I will have done you and the church a huge favor and people will flood into it as this is the only church in the world where they can introduce their precious children to such a benevolent practice.

        Liked by 4 people

      9. Robert,

        Are doing a Standup Comedy routine?

        “The leadership do not hide behind lawyers.”

        Ha Ha!! That’s a good one! Very good! I hope you wrote that with a straight face.

        But wait! It gets better!

        “Personally, I have my own ideas about heaven and hell that do not align with the church. I feel I am right.”

        ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫ ♪♫‼ ROLFLMAO ‼♪♫

        Jesus Christ, Robert! You don’t even believe the Church is True!

        You are encouraging “your” youth to believe shit that you don’t believe yourself.

        Just shut up already.

        Liked by 2 people

      10. I don’t know how to pronounce the words in your song, but just seeing it is causing me continuous chuckles.

        Like

      11. I should apologize to Robert for making fun … not what Jesus would do … so I give myself Grade F on WWJD.

        But … WTF, Robert?

        Why did you admit you do not believe The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ?

        I am glad you did, but WHY DID YOU ADMIT IT?

        In fact, I deeply respect your honesty. I should be slapped for making fun.

        Liked by 1 person

      12. Sam,

        I misspelled the lyrics in my song. It should have been spelled

        RAOFLMAO

        Rolling Around On Floor Laughing My Ass Off

        I should spellcheck that. I think I still got it wrong.

        It’s usually ROFLMAO without the A.

        Now you know, Sam.

        There are ROFLMAO songs on YouTube, but they are too stupid to bother with.

        Liked by 1 person

  44. Sam the stake president is showing his true colors

    He puts devotion to leaders before love and compassion as Jesus would

    I’m sorry to tell you this is not what Christ would do!! there are many things done in his name that he would not approve

    Liked by 1 person

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  45. These SP us following the example of Eric Hawkins on this am life

    They are all the same

    Eric Hawkins never said anyone in the church did anything wrong concerning the youth . he never admitted that the church (or any church leader) hurt anyone. what he did say is that those who claim they were hurt need to meet with the bishop so that the leader can help them understand that the problem was with how the child reacted—- not anything that the leader did or said

    In his deceitful and manipulating way Eric was saying he thinks it was the way the child interpreted and perceived the interview that is the problem— not what the leader did or said.

    In other words whatever the bishop says is inspired and appropriate, and it is all the problem of the child’s misinterpretation.(the church hierarchy cannot undermine the bishops) a bishop does not need to apologize , and neither does the Church

    The lawyers trained Eric well and they are very satisfied that he made absolutely no admission of guilt— even unwilling to say that leaders were inappropriate and unsupported by the church in these hurtful circumstances. Definitely unwilling to say that the child’s hurt was justified
    Or show any compassion towards the child.

    The reason Eric could not admit that a child was hurt is bec the church has encouraged and approved sexually explicit questioning and punishments shame and guilt

    And they don’t want to be sued if they do admit that anything wrong took place

    They don’t want to undermine the authority and respect for the bishops

    The church still supports these interviews “if the bishop is inspired and thinks it will help the child— then the church hierarchy supports it” it doesn’t matter how it affects the child

    The problem lies with the child ( they say)

    They will continue this evil bec they truly believe it helps youth to be righteous and moral in the sight of god

    How ironic that that this church expects sexual purity when the founder jo smith was committing sexual sins all the time and justified it —

    Anyway in the church today bishops are justified with whatever questions they deem necessary—and the child’s behavior snd interpretation are at fault.

    And you are treated in the same way . Any disrespect or rejection you feel is your problem. how you interpret the righteous acts of the leaders —they did the right thing by ignoring and exing you ( they believe)

    They deceive themselves into turning from Christ to serve the best interests of the corporation. There is no Christlike love for hurt members and ex members

    So sorry for the disrespectful way you were treated. you were treated like an ol dog they have no interest in. Who is just a nuisance..

    This is not of Christ and he would be infuriated at the evil they are perpetuating
    Love you Sam

    Liked by 2 people

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    1. Emma,
      Perhaps church leadership is practicing plausible deniability in regards to these interviews. If the shit hits the fan then I doubt church leadership will admit they wanted them and will push the blame down to local leaders.

      Liked by 2 people

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    2. Emma,

      Thank you for a very thoughtful and eloquently expressed post.

      Part of me hopes The Brethren never change … aka … continue to clearly display their true colors and emperor’s new clothes on the World Stage.

      Their continuing SexShame-LDS-Children Tone Deafness will only encourage more and more TBMs to wake themselves up and get themselves (and their kids) out Out OUT of harm’s way.

      Even if sex shaming interviews were totally abolished, Mormon Doctrine is still spiritually and psychologically disempowering and serves to STOP the spiritual maturation of the members … by keeping possession of the alleged Moral Authority away from the rightful owner … which would be every human being on the planet.

      Earlier I compared being TBM with living the rest of your life in your Mom’s basement … and paying Mom 10% rent … until you die. Eternal Training Wheels is another useful metaphor. Giving The Brethren responsibility for most of your important life decisions prevents you from ever truly growing up and becoming a psychologically and emotionally self-sufficient adult.

      The best way to avoid the deleterious effects of Bishop worthiness interviews is to never darken the door to the Bishop’s office … and better yet … never darken the door of an LDS Building ever again.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

  46. I feel like there are always two sides to every story… Maybe they know your nature and he felt uncomfortable in your presence due to past experiences that have not been aknowledged admitted or shared. Also do you know how many people go through excommunications… Of course the first presidency (3 men) are not going to personally meet with each and everyone! I wish you the best but hope you can start looking at both sides instead of just your own! It’s like a bad marriage… When you start blaming the other for everything and only aknowledging the flaws it always ends in hurt and resentment!

    Liked by 1 person

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  47. It’s very evident that Sam doesn’t want to be a part of this church. He is only using his interactions to fuel his 15 minutes of fame. Why would his church want to continue to add to his fuel. I see very little sincerity on his side and the fact that he publishes every conversation he can supports what I see.

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    1. Lassiter,
      Whether or not Sam wants to be “a part of this church” isn’t relevant to the cause of protecting LDS children and bishops. Your contention that Sam “is only using his interactions to fuel his 15 minutes of fame” is baseless. Why not present a cogent refutation instead of mere hearsay and supposition about his intentions? Sam’s movement is composed of good fruits and is on the side of doing the right things. I see more sincerity from Sam than I do from general church leaders. Sam has done much, much more for the cause he represents than church leaders are doing to protect LDS children and bishops.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

    2. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ad%20hominem

      Ad hominem
      An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their argument or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence.
      Person A: I think we should spend more money on environmental protection.
      Person B: You just think that because you’re a stupid tree-hugger.

      Person A: It is crucial that we facilitate adequate means to prevent degradation that would jeopardize the project.
      Person B: You think that just because you use big words makes you sound smart? Shut up you loser; you don’t know what you’re talking about.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

    3. HTC,

      Yes.

      Ad Hominem is the inevitable final argument when one is defending the Church.

      The reason is dirt simple.

      The Church is not true.

      Joseph lied.

      He made it all up.

      Those in the unenviable position of having invested a huge chunk of their personal ego and identity in the colossal fantasy that the Church is true cannot win any argument up against a person armed with facts and history.

      I respect the right of all human beings to believe whatever they want to believe … for whatever reason they want to believe it. If someone has been deceived by the ultra-clever Joseph Smith and the Legacy Liars-For-The-Lord who run the Church today, my heart goes out to them.

      Born there; done that.

      I am guilty of coming down too hard on Defenders of the Faith. I do it intentionally because subtlety is usually lost on TBMs. Actually, I am doing them a favor by strengthening their testimonies. Mormons have been duped into believing that when they are persecuted it’s because they have the truth, when in reality, they are persecuted because they are stunningly clueless and hopelessly deluded by parasite leadership who exploit members for their own personal gain.

      But there is always hope. Eventually everyone will wake up. For many it could take lifetimes. The fact that Mormons have not figured out that they get as many lifetimes as needed … to figure it out is … unfortunate .. and a very clever way to maintain hook-line-sinker control over their minds, hearts and wallets.

      “You only get ONE CHANCE to get it right, so you best TRUST US to guide you to heaven … or you will probably go to hell.”

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

      1. Gary, I suppose you have your reasons to believe what you believe. I will tell you what I believe.

        Joseph Smith was a true Prophet. The Book of Mormon is also true.

        In regard to Sam’s stand for the children, he is right to do so and I do not believe that Joseph Smith would have even considered for one minute to excommunicate Sam for his stand. I also do not believe that Joseph Smith would have condoned the types of interviews done with the youth in the cases which have been brought to the forefront with the questions being asked of them.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Hello, CC,

        Yours is an interesting juxtaposition of perspectives.

        “Joseph Smith was a true Prophet. The Book of Mormon is also true.”

        and

        “I also do not believe that Joseph Smith would have condoned the types of interviews done with the youth in the cases which have been brought to the forefront with the questions being asked of them.”

        Which is worse? Asking children if they masturbate? Or enticing teenage girls to “marry” you in exchange for the promise of salvation for their entire family? All behind your first wife’s back.

        I do respect your right to compartmentalize your psyche to your heart’s content … in order to continue believing what you want to believe … while maintaining operational functionality. That is the power of selective compartmentalization. If you do not allow the compartments to talk to each other and compare notes, everything is cool and life goes on.

        This video is a “must not ever see” for those who wanna keep their testimonies.

        Mormons are taught by The Brethren that FEELINGS = FACT.

        If you wanna continue believing The Brethren, then DO NOT WATCH the video.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. CC,

        I respect your right to shield yourself from confirmed facts of history you do not like.

        You believe the Church is true … because you WANT TO believe the Church is true.

        Your blinders do not change what the real Joseph Smith of history actually did … and to whom … simply because the cartoon Joseph Smith you believe in would never do those things.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Gary, your mis-perceptions are many. You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say (or type). You don’t know me or what I think but are so quick to judge because you think you know what you are talking about and you even think you know what is in my mind. I believe you to be highly mistaken about a few things.I think you need to humble yourself and rethink a lot of the crap you’ve been taught or read from false sources (FAKE NEWS). I will leave it at that. However, in regard to Joseph Smith, he did often preach against polygamy and adultery. Books written about him regarding polygamy were written so as to support polygamy. Joseph Smith fought against polygamy. Joseph and Hyrum excommunicated a man named Hiram Brown in 1844 for practicing polygamy. There is some evidence that several in the Quorum of the twelve were practicing polygamy without JS’ knowledge. Read the book: “Joseph Smith Fought Against Polygamy”..

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Cecil,

        “Books written about him regarding polygamy were written so as to support polygamy.”

        Correct me if I misinterpret you, but your writing suggests you believe that Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy.

        If that is true, then, with all due respect, you have deluded yourself about Joseph Smith’s sexual history.

        Do you consider http://www.lds.org to be Fake News? If so, please read this Fake News article about “Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage” … written by unnamed Church history scholars and approved for publication by the Quorum of the Twelve and First Presidency. This is the official Church website, Cecil.

        https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

        I will click the link for you and copy/paste a few paragraphs for you to read. You can decide if The Brethren are also publishing Fake News about the founder of their Church:

        “Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

        “During the era in which plural marriage was practiced, Latter-day Saints distinguished between sealings for time and eternity and sealings for eternity only. Sealings for time and eternity included commitments and relationships during this life, generally including the possibility of sexual relations. Eternity-only sealings indicated relationships in the next life alone.

        “Evidence indicates that Joseph Smith participated in both types of sealings. The exact number of women to whom he was sealed in his lifetime is unknown because the evidence is fragmentary.24 Some of the women who were sealed to Joseph Smith later testified that their marriages were for time and eternity, while others indicated that their relationships were for eternity alone.25

        “Most of those sealed to Joseph Smith were between 20 and 40 years of age at the time of their sealing to him. The oldest, Fanny Young, was 56 years old. The youngest was Helen Mar Kimball, daughter of Joseph’s close friends Heber C. and Vilate Murray Kimball, who was sealed to Joseph several months before her 15th birthday. Marriage at such an age, inappropriate by today’s standards, was legal in that era, and some women married in their mid-teens.26 Helen Mar Kimball spoke of her sealing to Joseph as being “for eternity alone,” suggesting that the relationship did not involve sexual relations.27 After Joseph’s death, Helen remarried and became an articulate defender of him and of plural marriage.28

        “Following his marriage to Louisa Beaman and before he married other single women, Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married.29 Neither these women nor Joseph explained much about these sealings, though several women said they were for eternity alone.30 Other women left no records, making it unknown whether their sealings were for time and eternity or were for eternity alone.

        “There are several possible explanations for this practice…. ”

        [END OF COPY/PASTE FROM www. lds.org]

        In case you missed it, the authors of this article chose to write “14 years old” as “several months before her 15th birthday.” In plain English, Joseph Smith’s youngest wife was 14 when he married her. I will leave it to your conjecture as to whether or not Joseph consummated the marriage.

        BTW, Cecil, I apologize to your for the tone of my writing. You do not yet realize that you have been deceived, and I should treat you with way more compassion and respect than you have seen from me so far. Straight talk saves time, but certainly can ruffle feathers at times.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. In regard to Joseph Smith, if you think about it, all of the polygamy “stuff” was supported and pushed after Joseph Smith’s death, not by him certainly. And, I disagree with the supposed history of JS on http://www.lds.org and believe it to be false. Think about it, if your whole church stands on whether or not Brigham Young was a Prophet, and he practiced polygamy, then his saying JS supported this practice, then you’ve got people who will follow you because of Joseph Smith’s virtue. Brigham Young was no prophet. I believe that much of LDS history to have been put in its best light, as some men suppose, by having JS’ history rewritten to support something that Brigham Young and others practiced, which JS preached against as did Hyrum Smith. JS made a comment hat he had barely been married five minutes before he was accused of having 7 wives when he could look around and only find one, Emma. LDS history is quite convoluted and full of tings that just don’t make any sense. Most of JS’ leadership in the Twelve turned against him at one point or another, not all of course. Martin Harris, William W. Phelps, Oliver Cowdery, the Whitmers and many others turned against JS. Oliver Cowdery accused JS of adultery when it was found out that it was Oliver Cowdery who was committing that act, no Joseph. The books, many of them were written after the 1850’s by people who had something to gain saying that Joseph supported polygamy, when in reality he did not support it and actually fought against it while most turned against him. When Brigham was supposedly out campaigning for Joseph for President, which is entirely false, men were conspiring to murder Joseph. There never was a covnetion held to campaign for JS. The dates in which Brigham Young were supposedly attending a convention to put Joseph’s name up for President were held a week and more before their supposed attendance at those conventions, for either party. Lots of fake news and false histories.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Notice the statement by the supposed historian, “Evidence indicates,…” This is a very weak statement, “Evidence indicates”. Where is that evidence then? The historian decides to make the statement without supporting facts due to his agenda or that of those who have charged the history. So, the historian is making an assumption based on his agenda. When I refer to false histories about Joseph Smith, I am referring solely to his supposed practice of polygamy, not anything else. It was said that Joseph’s name would be had for good and evil. That prophecy has been fulfilled. Did Joseph practice polygamy? I believe he did not, but that Brigham Young surely did, as he brought a wife back to Nauvoo with him, one who was already pregnant in the mid 1840’s. Read up on the Cochranites who did practice polygamy long before the LDS church got its start. Brigham Young and others among the Twelve were influenced by that group of people as they proselyted among them, so much so that they picked up the practice of polygamy from them.

        I want to set something straight. There are many good people among the LDS. There are also and have been wolves among the sheep. Most LDS are good and noble people and I am grateful for my association with them. Where I differ is in the false histories that are promulgated. Many say that “The church is true!” Ask yourself what that question really means. Is the person saying that the building is true? Of course not; this is an absurd statement. Then what is the person saying? Many would say that they know the church is true, but what they really should say is what they know is true. As the church stands right now it is a one-man owned corporation, owned solely by the President of the LDS Church. The church runs many businesses. How can a church which runs so many businesses actually focus on the things which God wants them to do? Why are there so many businessmen among the leaders? Additionally, is the President of the Church picked by God merely because he is next in line? It was never done this way prior to the LDS Church. Prophets were hand-picked by God, not by their being the next in line for that office.

        Although I have many misgivings about the LDS Church and its foggy histories, I am grateful I was baptized in 1973 while serving in the military and I am grateful for the Book of Mormon which I believe to be a spiritual gift to mankind, but also factual. Joseph Smith never condemned anyone for having different beliefs from his beliefs. Yet, today, the LDS Church leadership condemn those who raise valid red flags. Alma broke away from the church of his time with King Noah being the top leader. Why? Because the church had become corrupted. Can LDS leaders lead people astray? Absolutely they can, because they are quite simply “the arm of flesh”. I do not follow the Prophet as the primary song states. I follow Jesus Christ, not man.

        Liked by 1 person

      9. Dear Brother Cecil,

        Thank you sincerely for taking time to share more of your perspective on JS, BY and the Church. I agree with many of your statements.

        In the interest of constructive exchange of ideas, I will respectfully point out a few places where some of your dots do not connect for me:

        I think your perception of the polygamy bias in the lds.org essay is upside down. If I interpret you correctly, you are suggesting that the writers were citing sketchy history with intent to show Joseph was a polygamist. On the contrary, The Brethren have twisted themselves into Salted Pretzels to AVOID disclosure to the membership of the Church that Joseph practiced polygamy. The correlated lesson materials have enabled generations of b.i.c. members to grow up totally active, attend Primary, Sunday School, Seminary, you-name-it … and NOT KNOW that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. The fact that official sources PLAINLY ADMIT in the lds.org essay that Joseph practiced polygamy was a MONUMENTAL ADMISSION. The text of the essay was plainly wordsmithed to DOWNPLAY Joseph’s dozens of dalliances … even positing the euphemism of marriages “for time and eternity” and “for eternity only” … the difference being consummation or not.

        Cecil, you have not disclosed WHY you are resistant to acknowledging Joseph Smith was semi-polyamorous. I wrote “semi-” because one definition of polyamorous requires that all of the sex partners know about each other, which was certainly NOT the case with Emma kept in the dark a lot of the time … if not most of the time.

        So … a respectful question for you … what would be the downside for you if Joseph Smith practiced polygamy? Does that disqualify him as prophet-worthy?

        One more point … question for you: If Joseph was not practicing polygamy in secret, then do you have an explanation for his order to destroy the printing press for the Nauvoo Expositor … after only one issue was printed alleging that Joseph was a closet polygamist?

        You do indeed have a curious combination of beliefs and perspectives comingling in your psyche, Cecil. I am just curious how you fit them together.

        One last question: Seems to me that the Community of Christ would be a way-better fit for you. Have you considered joining? Their fork in the road was pre-Brigham … which seemingly would hold higher appeal for you.

        Like

      10. Hi Cecil,

        So glad you are here my friend. Your viewpoint is welcome here. Including your thoughts on Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.

        I certainly think you are correct about Joseph not condoning present day interview protocols. They were never a part of the restoration.

        Liked by 1 person

  48. Tamara Stansfield (familysearch) posted:”Church leaders…noted that part of family history consultants’ calling is to focus efforts on children turning 12.” Does Boyd K. Packer’s statement mean absolutely nothing?(“Bishop help me to help my son”.) Our TBM children are more than capable of involving our grandchildren in doing genealogy… we worked together…trips to far-flung cemeteries, visits to the National Archives, visits to unknown relatives, attending funerals. It appears that now the dangers of church leaders becoming involved with our children in one area have been exposed, another door has been opened. It is definitely not part of their calling, absolutely not !!! They are fired. !!! Enough damage has been done. They need to leave the children alone…scoot oh evil ones

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