My anger was triggered tonight. I want to swear my head off….which I have. But, I’m also going to vent in writing, while I still have fire in the belly.
The Trigger
John Dehlin is doing a series of new podcasts. It features people who experienced sexually intrusive questions during youth interviews. Tonight, a woman recounted an extremely graphic interrogation by her bishop. The questions asked didn’t just verge on pornography. They were pornographic. Highly troubling, yet the interview itself was not the trigger. But, the girl’s experience does beg the question, “What the hell is the church doing???!!!
John read various comments that were made on Facebook during the live broadcast. One person brought up ‘the licked cupcake,’ ‘the nail in the board’ and the ‘chewed gum’ analogies. And there it was. Anger welled up. Chewed gum. Dammit! Dammit to hell!
For 62 years, I had never heard of this holy trinity of shaming phrases. I served as a bishop for 5 years. Two stints on the high council totaling 6 years. Many years in the Young Men’s program. And…4 decades as a dad. Yet, I’d never heard of cupcakes, gum, or nailed boards, until……after my faith transition.
Being a Bad Dad
On various social media, I read complaints of this triad of awful teachings. At the time, 3 years ago, one adult daughter was living with us. I asked her about her YW years. Was she ever taught this?
Her answer: “Yes dad. The ‘chewed gum’ lesson, was devastating. Eventually, I realized how wrong it was. That’s why I started looking for other Christian churches after I left home.”
Where the hell was I??? My daughter being shamed and humiliated in the church I trusted. Being subjected to hurtful and unloving condemnation within the walls of the Mormon chapel. My youngest child being made to suffer right under my nose. S_ _ _!!! Where the hell was I???
In many ways, I was a good dad. But I was a bad dad for paying so little attention to what my child was being taught by the Only True Church.
Dammit to hell, I’m paying attention now. Lesson learned. I’m standing up and speaking out. This is what I should have done when my kids were young.
Protect…Our…Kids.
SIGN…THE…PETITION—HERE
Tocubit Is Invisible's Cubit 
Sam, would you please post the link to this podcast?
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Here’s the link: https://www.facebook.com/johndehlin/posts/10100242666272869?notif_id=1510257255748415¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic_tagged
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I love that you’re doing this! My oldest is about to turn 12 years old and I’m so thankful she will never have to go through any of this. Either her dad or I will be there with her in every interview.
P.s. Signed the petition #630
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Thank you for signing. More importantly…Thank you for being a mom who protects her children.
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I have you to thank for that! You changed my families life by standing up for what’s right.
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Same here. One of my sons was shamed and spiritually abused by a bishop over porn and masturbation to the point that he eventually just stopped going. Looking back, I wished I would have kicked that bishop’s ass. We are so damn indoctrinated that leadership is “inspired” and that they have “insight”, that it dampens our parental instincts. I, a grown-ass woman and otherwise good mom, let this go by. And now I’m wondering about my other two who have left the Church. I need to have some heart-to-heart talks with them.
Breaks my heart. NEVER AGAIN. My youngest two, at least, now have the united front of BOTH their parents, even though we are divorced.
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I’m not surprised you never knew. Those ideas came straight from the top to the people who write the manuals and teach the lessons. Priesthood itself, aside from the top tier, is never involved, and is generally blissfully unaware. It’s not something that is taught in General Conference–only behind closed doors during the dreaded annual YW chastity lesson. That’s where girls are taught that any bad thought a priesthood holder may have about their bodies is their fault, because it’s up to the girls/women to keep the males on the right track and “support the priesthood.” Hence, why many girls think it’s their own fault when they’ve been raped or harassed. Worse yet, many adults will confirm that notion. God forbid one of the special priesthood-holding males be held accountable for something they just can’t help and is really someone else’s fault, right? And it makes sense to protect the priesthood holders at all costs in this church. The church only functions with men in charge. If you drive them all away with disfellowship or excommunication (shame is totally fine because the church can control the men that way, but only if they’re active members), you lose your ability to control from the top down. The men make the decisions in the family, too, especially about finances. Including tithing. And the church NEEDZ ITS MONEY.
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Sam, This is one of the topics that gets me fired up as well. It is sad to think that it has come to this. I have never been asked any questions in an interview that comes anywhere close to the types of questions you have mentioned here. As a parent of three grown children, I️, would be angry to find out that their Bishop asked such personal questions. Unlike you and most of your followers, however, I do believe masturbation is a sin and should be gotten under control before a mission call or a temple recommend. The bishop has no way of knowing this without asking. If we are supposed to be living like Christ lived, I cannot fathom Him following this disgusting habit. I believe the answer to this problem within the Church is a meeting once a year with all youth and their parents. During this meeting, the bishop would explain to parents the kinds of questions he would discuss with youth in interviews. Parents should be invited to tell him what they think, and be invited to attend these individual interviews. After all, these children were entrusted to us and not to the bishop. Parents should be the ones to explain to their children what chastity entails.
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I love this Janice. It would be a big step in the right direction. Today, parents have no idea what is being asked. I have an meeting with the bishop this Sunday to ask him what is being asked.
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Dear Janice,
While I respect your right to your personal opinion, I must point out that your view of Masturbation as a “disgusting habit” is totally and completely in the eye of the beholder. In other words, Masturbation is only disgusting because YOU CHOOSE (for whatever reason) to see it as disgusting.
You could just as easily view Masturbation as a gift from our Creator to provide every human being with a built-in, conveniently located, temporary, Intensely Pleasurable, Momentary Distraction from the formidable challenge of navigating the human condition here on Planet Earth.
There is virtually nothing else within the Human Experience that so totally and completely gives us a few seconds of Mind-Numbing Esctasy and temporarily transports us far away from the heaviness of normal consciousness.
Performed discretely in private, Masturbation harms nobody whatsoever, unless you are Janice Hurst or someone else living in a state of Religious Cult Mind Control, in which case it triggers an avalanche of guilt and shame and self-loathing.
The Brethren are accomplished masters of Mind Control. They know full well that the brainwashing of Janice Hurst and most TBMs into sincerely believing that Making Love To Yourself is disgusting and sinful will keep the TBMs busy loathing themselves instead of using that energy to figure out that they have been trapped in a Mind Control Cult that has brought their spiritual growth to a screeching halt.
How do I know what I just wrote?
Simple. Been there. (Born there.) Done that. Got out. Now I see clearly.
Years ago when my temple marriage was purring along, except for the periodic episodes when my eternal companion would try to physically beat the crap out of me, I sought help from my Bishop. He noted that we had been married four years with no offspring, and recommended that we have a baby. I also sought professional mental health counseling from a TBM LCSW. After I bared my soul to him, he actually told me that my wife was attacking me as God’s punishment for my occasional immoral sin of Masturbating. The feeling of moral failure and self-loathing I experienced after succumbing to the temptations of the Devil haunted me and made me feel worthless and disgusting.
Disgusting. Sound familiar, Janice?
(Sidebar: I told this story to Sam Young in person while sitting in his car riding down the freeway during a Houston visit last April. Sam burst out laughing uncontrollably when he heard the punchline. Thank you, Sam, for your totally sane and healthy response to my ridiculous (albeit sad) story.)
Anyway, Janice, when you have been Mind Controlled, that means you have lost control of your own mind. That means that your own Free Will has been shorted out and is no longer Free.
If I give myself permission to speak frankly, which I have just given, I will summarize this as bluntly and directly as the English language makes possible.
A sincerely held belief that The Church is True and The Brethren are spokesmodels for God is a sure sign of … dare I write the words … yes, I dare … the words are:
BRAIN DAMAGE
In hindsignt, I see clearly that my own personal BRAIN had been DAMAGED by my b.i.c. upbringing. I never had a chance to develop the capacity to exercise Free Agency. Agency is not Free when your capacity to seriously consider non-approved choices as possible and reasonable alternatives has been programmed away by a brainwashday miracle.
Sam has figured out that something ain’t right with the Church. He is trying his best to fix some of the symptoms. I fully support him to follow his own path and do what makes sense to him.
In the meantime, Masturbation is a disgusting habit … for those with Brain Damage courtesy of The Brethren.
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Gary, I had hoped to not get into this but by calling me brain damaged, you left me no choice. If anyone has been damaged or controlled, it has been you. There is nothing Christlike, spiritual, or meaningful. In my opinion about “masturbation” . You had a need and filled this need through this act. It serves no purpose but instant gratification. Your story is sad and for that I have empathy for you. But nothing you say takes away from the fact that your body is a Temple. And I don’t thing Heavenly Father had masturbation in mind when he designed our bodies. In fact I know he didn’t.
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Hi, Janice,
Thank you for responding to my blunt and direct comments. I was blunt and direct intentionally.
I suspect that decades ago when I was fully TBM that I would have responded similarly. I understand why being labeled BRAIN DAMAGED comes across as an egregious insult. It is virtually impossible for a person with this kind of BRAIN DAMAGE to see or acknowledge it within themselves. In my case, it was only after my own brain began to heal from the deleterious effects of the Restored Gospel that I was able to get some perspective and see just how Mind Controlled was my psyche as a TBM.
Just the other day, I struck up a conversation with the local Elders in front of my house after they asked me if I would like to have a picture of Jesus. It was like I was looking at myself when I was a missionary in Argentina almost 50 years ago. These young men were very intelligent and capable and full of potential, just like I was at that age. The thing they cannot see or comprehend is the same thing I could neither see or comprehend when I was that age. Their suggestion to me was to read the Book of Mormon to regain my testimony and to watch a conference talk by Tad R. Callister. They wrote his name on my Jesus photocard. I would have said the same thing to an exMormon way back when. Now I see things so very clearly that are completely invisible to these young men, however intelligent they are otherwise.
I will say this to you, Janice. Being b.i.c. and growing up TBM was an important part of my own maturation process, and I do not regret any of it. The Mormon Church serves an important function on this planet. Those souls who need the experience of subserving themselves and their Free Will to external influences find comfort at TBMs until something occurs in their lives to jar them awake, at which time they realize what happened and find the courage to take control and responsibility for their own health and welfare.
Hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of exMormons have experienced a crystal clear view of Mormonism that is presently invisible to you from the inside perspective as a TBM, Janice. If you think you know what it feels like to be a b.i.c. baby, grow up TBM, discover you were duped and lied to, and then extricate yourself and your brain from the spell of The Brethren, you would be mistaken. Mormons believe they know everything worth knowing or important to know. “We have the Truth!” And Mormons also believe they are humble and teachable in the same breath. Sounds like brain damage to me.
Regarding your perspective on Masturbation, life is full of choices. If you believe that God installed an enticing booby trap in every human being loaded to release a flood of guilt and shame if or when you hit the tripwire when you with yourself, then I hope you leave the trip wire alone. Or only allow someone else, specifically your husband, to hit that tripwire for you.
BTW, Janice, I think you are very courageous to participate on Sam’s blog. There is something unusual in you, seems to me. Most TBMs would not touch this blog with a ten-foot pole, let alone participate. You have my respect for that.
You mentioned you are sorry that I have lost my reality. Well, lemme quote my favorite author, David R. Hawkins, RIP:
“In reality, everything is spontaneously manifesting the inherent destiny of its essence, and it requires no external help to do this. With humility, one can relinquish the ego’s self-appointed role as savior of the world and surrender all of it straight to God. The world that the ego pictures is a projection of its own illusions and arbitrary positionalities. No such world exists.”
A miracle of Life on Earth is its ability to accommodate billions of “realities” … all different. We all get to experience the playbook we chose before being born and to learn and grow in ways tailor-made to enable our soul-essence to make progress towards fulfilling the limitless potential of our creation.
Joseph Smith got some things right. There is indeed a Plan of Eternal Progression. For many of us, being Mormon for a while and then waking up to assume ownership and responsibility for our own existence is part of that plan.
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“I told this story to Sam Young in person.” When I came to this part of your comment, I laughed and laughed and laughed. That night was so magical. I treasure the conversation in the car. I take joy in the meal we shared. We’d never met, yet we bonded immediately. I love you, my brother and fellow traveler.
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Janice, I’m curious how you believe that masturbation is a sin, other than by that is what you have been told your entire life? There is no harm to anyone, including the sole participant, except for the damaging effects on the mind for believing you are participating in a horrible sin. Children can learn that it feels good at a very young age long before being told they are engaging in a horrible sin (I speak from personal experience). Do you honestly believe one’s Spirit is harmed by this act (think about this for a moment and don’t just fall back on what you’ve been told all your life)? Is the Spirit really that delicate that it can’t allow the physical body a moment of pleasure? Should back rubs be considered sinful too, because they also feel good. I personally believe that I could have been a much happier person (including a missionary) had I been able to engage in this act as though it’s something normal and nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of. It’s no different than enjoying a slice of cake that can satisfy a god given craving. I carried way too much unnecessary guilt for years for doing something in private that did not harm anyone, and satisfies a craving. Please explain what it is about masturbation that makes it out to be such a horrible sin that it has to be confessed to a leader? I’m seriously curious how you conclude it to be a sin.
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The interviews conducted by LDS Bishops is still a good idea in my opinion. HOWEVER, as far as I know the Church does not condone this kind of behavior in any bishop, stake president, young men or young women leader. The person asking these kinds of questions has an unhealthy curiosity at best and a perverted view at worst. If I were raising kids today I would never allow my child to be subjected to this kind of interrogation. I do not want “the Church” thrown under the bus. These kinds of questions are solely the actions of men with a little bit of authority believing they are doing their priesthood duty. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
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Carolyn,
Jesus taught, “Judge not.”
Bishops are defined as a “common judge in Israel.”
Seems to me that Bishops fail the WWJD test automatically.
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Sam, I agree with your anger however I stop short of signing the petition because it appears we are just tilting at windmills. I don’t understand why any of us would think the Q15 will give anything more than a passing persecution thought at the petition no matter the amount of support. Am I missing something here or are we just signing to help lessen our own anguish at allowing ourselves and our kids to experience this?
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Great question, Jake. There are several good things that the petition accomplishes. You have spurred me to write a blog post detailing them. Thanks!
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Jake,
I totally agree with you.
The Brethren do not care what anyone who does not worship them thinks or says … unless the thinking or saying gains enough visibility to influence too many tithe payers.
Still, I support Sam in what he is doing. The Brethren will ignore him until they decide to excommunicate his ass. In the meantime, Sam’s proactivity will shine more light on the dark shadows of Mormonism.
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I would welcome the Bishop or his counselors or the Stake President and his to invite me in to their office to discuss this matter. Nothing will change tho until it gets to the level of the area presidency or area seventy.
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Janice,
I agree with your words: “Nothing will change … ” if you delete the rest of that sentence.
If you believe The Brethren are doing something wrong, why do you persist in believing the Church is True?
Sounds to me like your Brain Damage is starting to fail … if you are able to do some or your own thinking.
“When the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done.”
The Brethren depend on the members leaving the thinking to The Brethren.
Nothing is more dangerous to one’s Testimony than one starting to think for oneself. When you dare to think for yourself, that very act starts to reverse the Brain Damage.
When a critical mass of your Brain Damage is successfully reversed, the Church ceases to be True, and The Brethren cease to have anything whatsoever in common with Jesus Christ.
Been there. Born there. Done that. Got out.
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Gary, I can say what I said and still believe the brethren have been called by a Father in heaven who loves us and we have even been told to think and pray about those things we question. I believe it was Elder Holland in the last Conf that reiterated this. I also have faith when I have doubts. Yes, I believe the church is true. Yes, I believe things need to change…but the difference is that I have faith that in the Lord’s time, not yours or mine or Sam’s.
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Janice,
I glossed over your fantasy that your local Priesthood Leaders would invite a mere female to a meeting discussing changes to Church Policy.
The Church that exists in your imagination simply does not exist in Reality.
Sorry about that, but there IS an effective solution available to you.
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Gary, I meant if and when I have to have an interview. I did not mean that I would be specifically called in because of the issues I brought up here. My reality is just fine. I am sorry you have lost yours.
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Janice. And just wow. Still believing that somehow pleasure is a dirty, disgusting habit. So just wow. There are so many women who struggle to achieve orgasm. Is orgasm a dirty thing? Is a vibrator? Is it dirty when a husband uses it on a woman but the woman can’t use it on herself? I find it funny that you can think that discussion of these things with a minor is bad but your stance is LITERALLY why they ask these kinds of questions. They view it as a dirty, filthy thing and must do everything in their power to stop (ruin it) for everyone else. Your comment only helps to propagate the reasons why ignorance runs rampant, kids kill themselves for being gay and church leaders think it’s ok to ask questions they never, ever should.
Now I’m going back to reading my Cosmopolitan.
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If ignorance was a flower most of you would be a bouquet. You have way too much time on your hands. I don’t need to justify my beliefs because they don’t agree with yours. You are entitled to yours as well. I made one statement about masturbation and you MEN could write a book about why you disagree. Or you could grow up to maturity, find a meaningful relationship and use your body part for one of the two purposes God intended.
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Courageous Janice,
“Or you could grow up to maturity, find a meaningful relationship and use your body part for one of the two purposes God intended.”
It’s problematic when mere humans ascend a Remeumptum and announce God’s Will to their audience. You are asserting the “body part” to which you refer has two purposes intended by God. You were not specific, so I will assume that those two purposes are: 1) urination, and ) sexual intercourse with female of the species to whom the body part owner is lawfully wedded (preferably in the temple).
The other uses not intended by God then include: 3) solo sexual pleasure aka self-abuse aka sin-next-to-murder; 4) sexual pleasure with a female spouse involving any body contact other than with her vagina; 5) any form of sexual pleasure with a non-spouse female; 6) any form of sexual pleasure with someone of the same gender; 7) sexual contact with other species; 8) sexual pleasure involving any mechanical or electrical devices … etc. (this list could get kinda long, so I will stop here . . . )
So, Janice, I will point out something to you. The Brethren’s teachings regarding proper and righteous use of one’s reproductive physiology are summarized accurately above. The Brethren teach that any deviation from the two approved uses of reproductive physiology constitutes up to and/or including a sin next to murder.
Righteous members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sincerely believe that what The Brethren teach on this topic is God’s Truth, and that anyone who cannot or does not obey The Law of Chastity as taught by The Brethren is committing sin potentially egregious as murdering another human being. The result of non-compliance can be an overwhelming overload of guilt, shame and self-loathing. This is particularly the case when natural desire (aka temptings of Satan) cannot be overcome by strength of will and powerful faith combined with stalwart and valiant righteousness, fervent prayer, scripture study or tying your hands to the bedposts.
Some particularly vulnerable individuals, despite their best efforts at self-control, continue to either masturbate or cannot refrain from any of the not-approved-by-God forms of sexual activity enumerated above. Some of these individuals are so overcome with an intensity of shame, guilt and self-loathing that the only effective solution is to get rid of their troublesome human body and KILL THEMSELVES.
What I just wrote is fact, Janice.
I presume that you are able to acknowledge that some members of your Church listen to the teachings of The Brethren, do their best to obey these teachings, FAIL despite their best efforts, and then KILL THEMSELVES as the only way they can stop disobeying The Brethren aka disobeying God.
And, Janice, it appears that you are not only OK with this reality, but also support The Brethren in what they are teaching and causing and then allowing to occur.
Let me paint this picture from a different angle for you. A nontrivial number of dead Mormons would still be alive today if they were not Mormons.
Let’s boil it down another notch.
The Mormon Church kills some of its members for disobedience.
Today The Brethren are adept at convincing some of the disobedient to kill themselves. As you probably know, Brigham Young was not so crafty and commissioned Porter Rockwell to dish out blood atonement back in the day. The Mormon Church no longer murders some of its members. Now they murder themselves.
Janice, I feel like apologizing in advance for what I am about to write.
If your cognitive thought processes prevent you from following the simple and clear chain of rational logic I just outlined above, my diagnosis is …. brain damage. If you are unable to connect the dots outlined above, there is some kind of information processing malfunction in your brain. That is not a rhetorical statement or a metaphor. I am saying your brain is not functioning properly. The reason can be traced to immersion Mind Control since birth aka Brainwashing by The Brethren. The result is malfunctioning cognitive processing. The inability to connect a series of dots with clear and logical relationships one to the other.
Mormonism can appear to work OK for heterosexual members who are married and limit their bedroom activities to penis>vagina. For others not in this elect group, Mormonism can be dangerous. For some, it is more than dangerous. It is lethal.
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Gary,
You are so right when you talk about people killing themselves when it is seen to be the only way to avoid the sin. ANd it is F#*%ed up that the church culture teaches this thinking. I almost turned to suicide after my dear sweet mother said she’d rather have me be a murderer than a homosexual because at least I could repent and be forgiven for murder. I actually planned my own demise in great detail. I didn’t follow through though. Because I knew that once my body relaxed I’d poop my pants and become a further shame. The fact that masturbation is post facto self punishable by death is horrific
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Dear Judd,
Thank you for sharing your own literal brush with Death by Mormonism. Your story speaks volumes that cry out to be shouted from the rooftops.
On behalf of The Brethren who never apologize, I will apologize right now. I apologize that the Church I cluelessly donated two years of my life to as an unpaid sales representative … nearly killed you.
Janice, please pay attention here. The religion you love nearly killed Judd.
Judd is a real live human being who is writing here on Sam’s blog with you, Sam and me.
Judd believed that what The Brethren taught him was the Word of God.
Are you listening, Janice?
Judd came close to murdering himself because of what The Brethren teach and continue to teach.
Janice, if what you just read does not cause you to break out in a cold sweat, there is something seriously malfunctioning in your brain.
When I say that you have brain damage administered by The Brethren, I am deadly serious.
Literally deadly serious.
If you don’t believe me, then believe Judd.
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Dear Janice and Sam,
I just watched this MormonStories interview of Mike Norton by John Dehlin.
I want both of you to watch Part 1 of this multi-part interview. It is one of the most compelling John Dehlin interviews I have ever seen.
My request to both of you is to write your assessment of and reaction to this interview here on Sam’s blog after you watch Part 1. (I have not watched the other parts yet … fyi. Part 1 is enough for now.)
Seriously. Please watch this interview. I want both of you to watch this video.
Janice, please watch it.
Sam, please watch it.
Anyone else who is reading this, please watch it.
Thank you.
-GaryC
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Hi, Janice. First I want to say I’m not going to attack you or your views directly. Reading your comment made me think about things happening in the Lord’s time. I believe that God also chooses to make us His instruments of change to spur growth and healing when it is so desperately needed. I believe he chose Martin Luther King as an instrument for change to speak up peaceably For people who were (and still are in many ways) marginalized. The problem with doctrinal revelation is that it is filtered through the vessel of Man. it is why the Bible has verses decrying the voices of women should be silenced. It is why the Church espoused a doctrine that differences in skin tone were the result of a curse. There are beliefs and doctrines that are revealed to be tainted on a frequent basis. I believe that the doctrine about homosexuality will evolve someday as well. It already has in some amazing ways . I see Sam as His instrument in speaking up for children and others who until now have been unable to speak. There are things about my sexuality and my Self that should remain strictly between myself and God. They do not need to be shared with a bishop serving untrained in a temporary capacity. A bishop, and I daresay a Church, should be a facilitator of enabling me to become closer to God. It should not be a tool used to excise me from the love of the Lord. I think we are in a time when changes must be spurred on by the actions of Man and Woman as inspired by God.
Janice, thank you for responding to the original post because it allows conversation and thought to occur. And conversation and thought inspire Growth.
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Judd,
You are another man who I’m so glad to have met. You blessed me with your presence at that amazing Talkeria.
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Awwwww shucks! I’m glad to have had the chance to meet you too. Through that day I was able to meet other people and develop an expanded sense of community
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“They draw near to me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.”
This is a soberingly accurate description of The Brethren who so clearly serve the financial agenda of their corporation at the expense of their cluelessly duped membership.
It’s ironic that TBMs have no trouble identifying, say Scientology, as a Mind Control Cult, but remain stunningly clueless that the Mormon Church is no less guilty when it comes to profiting from the brainwash and spiritual destruction of its host.
Why don’t you TBMs wake up smell the coffee? Do you not realize that innocent human beings literally KILL THEMSELVES because of what those goddamned monsters in expensive suits teach from their lethal pulpit in the name of Jesus?
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Wow. Pulling no punches there, my friend.
“At the expense of their cluelessly duped membership.” Dang it!!! I realize that I’m often clueless. But duped? Come on, Gary. Certainly I’ve left the duped category behind, right?
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I completely agree. Why don’t they wake up and smell the coffee? And turn it into a delightfully delicious vanilla cappuccino served with a side of biscotti?waking up and smelling the coffee can lead to quite a bit of personal fulfillment
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My Dear Sam,
“Dang it!!! I realize that I’m often clueless. But duped? Come on, Gary. Certainly I’ve left the duped category behind, right?”
Sam, seems this would be about semantics and definitions of words. Let’s have a look:
dupe /djuːp/
noun
1.a person who is easily deceived
2.a person who unwittingly serves as the tool of another person or power
verb
3.(transitive) to deceive, esp by trickery; make a dupe or tool of; cheat; fool
With respect to the Mormon Church, the definition of dupe is in the eye of the beholder.
My personal perspective as a TBM used to be that anyone who did not believe the Church is True could be considered duped. Now as a former TBM, my perspective is that anyone who DOES believe the Church is True has been duped.
I believe that virtually EVERYTHING Joseph Smith claimed he experienced of a supernatural nature was a made-up fabrication aka lie intended to deceive others. Historical research proves he lied up one side and down the other regarding his penile explorations, so we know Joseph Smith was a liar.
So to answer your question, Sam, my perspective is that you are duped only to the extent that you believe Joseph Smith told the truth about anything important.
Plus, I love you and what you are doing to raise awareness of the evidence persisting today that originated with Joseph Smith’s chronic lying.
If I don’t agree with you on everything, Sam, that does not stop me from loving you and respecting the quality human being you have grown yourself to become.
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Hi Gary,
Sometimes I am such a crumby writer. My comment about being a dupe was purely satirical.
Now to Mike Norton. I wish you were on Facebook. I’ve talked about and with New Name Noah quite a bit. I listened to all 3 of his Mormon Stories episodes. Last Sunday, he and I were speakers on the same podium. That night I took him out to dinner. The next day he posted on FB a video of my talk.
He introduced it with these words, “There were many lighthearted moments at the Mass Resignation event in Salt Lake City today but one of the most poignant talks was given by Sam Young. Sam, took me and his adorable mother Bertie out for dinner afterwards. I am honored to be this man’s friend. This post is dedicated to the memory of Sam’s friend ‘Rulon.’ We can all learn a lesson from this story.”
I’m, too, am honored to call Mike a friend. He is a fascinating, intelligent and loving man. It would be super fun for the 3 of us to share a meal. Add another good friend of mine, Janice, and it would be a meal we would savor the rest of our lives.
Love ya brother!
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Hi, Sam,
I just saw your post about meeting Mike Norton at the MassResignation event, having dinner, etc.
Super!
I’m glad you and Mike know each other and resonate. You are both passionate voices for the defenseless casualties of The Brethren’s predatory transmogrification of the teachings of Jesus for power and profit.
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BTW, have you signed the petition?
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I just signed the petition with a comment.
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Janice,
“Gary, I meant if and when I have to have an interview. I did not mean that I would be specifically called in because of the issues I brought up here. ”
Thank you for clarifying that you do not now mean what you previously wrote.
“I would welcome the Bishop or his counselors or the Stake President and his to invite me in to their office to discuss this matter. Nothing will change tho until it gets to the level of the area presidency or area seventy.”
I respect your right to change your mind, based on your obvious command of English.
By the way, the Mormon Church is founded on word-smithing and word-spinning. Mormon scriptures have been silently and surreptitiously edited thousands of times over the years. And not just the Book of Mormon. The Doctrine and Covenants has been seriously rewritten since the original Book of Commandments.
sur·rep·ti·tious·ly
ˌsərəpˈtiSHəslē
adverb
in a way that attempts to avoid notice or attention; secretively.
“Mary surreptitiously slipped from the room”
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